Hellow from Poland (Minsk Mazowiecki)

[Stefano]

Unless you point you camera at the Sun or bright light sources, it's unlikely you will see something in live view. Seeing an image in live view means that your camera is sensitive enough to shoot videos, and in UVB it's often not possible (with the setup in his post I linked, Jonathan would need f/4.5, ISO 25600 and 1/25 seconds of exposure. Actually, he might try it).

[Stefano]

2 minutes ago, lukaszgryglicki said:

LOOOOOL

So stupid mistake!!

 

Now I'm able to make a photo with it, using f=5.6, ISO=100 and t=5s (D600 mono + UV-Nikkor)

Guess what?

 

My WINDOWS are blocking 99% or even a lot more of UV-B. Yes - I'm stupid, I did test photo indorr through the window!!

Now when I open it and make a photo from balcony, all looks just fine.

Live View works when UV-Nikor is even at f=8 (but quite dark) and with f=5.6 and f=4.5 it is OK - able to magnfy in Live view and shoot!

 

LOL again.

 

When I use life view indoor to see through open balcony door I see everything but when I look at the window just next to it - it is pitch black!

 

Good news!

[lukaszgryglicki]

So with another try - UV-Nikkor + 308 filter:

- D600 bb mono with unknown converglass (probably passing from about 280nm?) needs: ISO=100, t=5s, f=8.

- D600 bb color with unknown coverglass (probably passing from about 280nm?) needs: ISO=100, t=15s, f=8.

 

So mono is 3x faster. But I suspect IR leaks after I processed photos with AccuRaw Monochrome and AccuRaw EXR for mono & color photos.

Foliage is too light for my taste.

 

But now tell me how is it possible - if I attempt to make a photo of exactly the same scene, but through a window I need at least 8x ISO, 2x time and 1.5 stops at aperture, which gives 8x ISO (3 stops), 2x time (1 stop), f=8->4.5 (1.5 stop) -> 5.5 stops more because of glass window (45x blocking factor of a window, say 2% transmittance) and I get black image then so still miss stops.

 

If window almost completely blocks it then this shouldn't be IR-leak? Right? But then why foliage is light?

 

Actual photos:

(unprocessed JPGs) + (processed JPGs) - NEFs are too large:

 

unprocessed color:

unprocessed mono:

processed color (WB to concrete from image):

processed mono:

 

Regarding video/live view.

- Lv is very dark in color D600 - almost impossible to focus with zooming - at f=4.5 struggle to see some shining reflections to focus on them, f=4.5 is "dreamy" and when stopping down screen goes black. Not usable for video at all IMHO.

- Lv is OK in mono D600 - easy to focus in maginification - even usable at f=8. Probably possible to shoot video - will check now...

 

[colinbm]

Do you have a ZWB1 2 or 3 mm thick to stack & see if it is an IR leak ?

[lukaszgryglicki]

I have S8612 (2mm thick) and I have BG39 2.3mm

[lukaszgryglicki]

Video is also possible with some caveats, see description in my YT links:

- https://youtu.be/psguxsOS2h8

- https://youtu.be/jFJGAHrsqR8

- https://youtu.be/LYCmyxijgxQ

 

EDIT: yes I know - the internal reflections. Lens shade is a must but this filter's outer thread does not allow anything to mount (like another filter on top of it) so I will need to find a lens shade 52mm that screws into lens thread and then it should have another internal 52mm thread so I can mount the filter "inside the shade" - if such thing exists...

[Stefano]

Some information:

I can't say for sure, but it looks like camera sensors, even of different brands, see raw green at wavelengths around 310 nm:

 

Me (Canon EOS M, 310 nm);

Bernard (Sony A6000, 303 nm. Also in that post he said he gets green at 315 nm too);

Jonathan (Canon 450D, 308 nm).

 

So, according to the (little) knowledge we have, you should expect green at 308 nm. If you see other colors, either you are not seeing UVB or your sensor responds differently than usual.

 

The bright foliage in your color photo (along with the orange color) indicates that you have IR contamination. The monochrome image looks better, but I would not trust it too much. When you will find a way to have pure 308 nm images with your color sensor, then you will be sure you won't have any leaks with your monochrome camera.

 

If you can't see anything through a window despite having an obvious IR leak, the only thing I can think of is that your window actually absorb IR. If your house is modern, then perhaps it could be the case (?) Try an Hoya R72 or a red filter, that should work.

[lukaszgryglicki]

OK so when I add BG39 2.3mm thick - all is black, total black.

When I use Hoya R72 through the window, I see almost no difference - turning on Lv and half of the screen is throught the window and another half through open balcony door - window is maybe 10% darker..

Now I'm confused... my raw color image shows red & green (a bit less grenn so color is orange), very little blue... when white balancing foliage becomes white or light grey. Mono image's foliage is darker but chimeys are as in my Hoya U-340 (4mm thick) + BG39mm (2.3mm thick) - they look almost the same - so this is like UV-A around 340. On the other side BG39 + 308 filter is total black, I think BG39 cuts below 340 or so... ?

I have more filters, any suggestion what shoudl I try? For me it looks almost like H340+BG39 but with lighter foliage - even color (orange-yellow) is similar to U340+BG39 stack, but then 308+BG39 is total black...

 

[Stefano]

BG39 blocks both UVB and IR (see here for 2 mm thickness, yours is even thicker), so a black image is expected.

 

If I understand correctly your window doesn't look very dark if you stack your Hoya R72 filter on your Invisible Vision filter, that means that your window is actually quite transparent to IR, contrary to what I have assumed before.

 

The chimneys(?) looking the same is not so weird, not everything looks drastically different at different wavelengths.

 

To reduce your IR leakage, stack some Hoya U-340, if you didn't try yet. U-360-type glass (Hoya U-360, UG1, ZWB2, etc.) will block or strongly attenuate 308 nm light.

[lukaszgryglicki]

Will try with U340 then. Will report later.

 

[dabateman]

3 hours ago, lukaszgryglicki said:

So with another try - UV-Nikkor + 308 filter:

- D600 bb mono with unknown converglass (probably passing from about 280nm?) needs: ISO=100, t=5s, f=8.

- D600 bb color with unknown coverglass (probably passing from about 280nm?) needs: ISO=100, t=15s, f=8.

 

So mono is 3x faster. But I suspect IR leaks after I processed photos with AccuRaw Monochrome and AccuRaw EXR for mono & color photos.

Foliage is too light for my taste.

 

But now tell me how is it possible - if I attempt to make a photo of exactly the same scene, but through a window I need at least 8x ISO, 2x time and 1.5 stops at aperture, which gives 8x ISO (3 stops), 2x time (1 stop), f=8->4.5 (1.5 stop) -> 5.5 stops more because of glass window (45x blocking factor of a window, say 2% transmittance) and I get black image then so still miss stops.

 

If window almost completely blocks it then this shouldn't be IR-leak? Right? But then why foliage is light?

 

Actual photos:

(unprocessed JPGs) + (processed JPGs) - NEFs are too large:

 

unprocessed color:

unprocessed mono:

processed color (WB to concrete from image):

processed mono:

 

Regarding video/live view.

- Lv is very dark in color D600 - almost impossible to focus with zooming - at f=4.5 struggle to see some shining reflections to focus on them, f=4.5 is "dreamy" and when stopping down screen goes black. Not usable for video at all IMHO.

- Lv is OK in mono D600 - easy to focus in maginification - even usable at f=8. Probably possible to shoot video - will check now...

 

Your monochrome looks like UVB with a little IR leakage in the background on the trees.

Your color D600 looks like mostly IR.

The coverglass on the D600, I remember blocking uvb and only letting in about 5% at 310nm from Vivek's test. So your monochrome with alternative coverglass is your best bet. 

 

[lukaszgryglicki]

Will retry IV308+U-340 but I couldn't today (work) and it's already too dark outside. Also waiting really waiting for GFX 50R mono with quartz.

 

Also please take a look how all glasses are black (house windows, cars windows), also cars paint has deeper UV-look - like easy see where it was painted etc (in mono) but then I can also see this in color when I look for this, so color also has some UV IMHO.

 

[Nate]

5 hours ago, lukaszgryglicki said:

My WINDOWS are blocking 99% or even a lot more of UV-B. Yes - I'm stupid

Me too, you're not alone with that. I was testing filter stacks with my diffraction grating and window slit for months, and couldn't get bellow 340nm with any of them until I opened the window behind the cardboard.

[lukaszgryglicki]

BTW: anybody know about lens shade (say 52mm) that can be threaded into lens and AFTER mounting that lens shade it also has 52mm thread inside it so I can mount filter after the shade?

Asking because IV308nm does not have external thread, so nothing can be mounted after it is mountd and at the sam etime it has a lot of internal reflections and shade is a must - today I just did my shots on tripond, for 15s, using my hand to shade the lens, otherwise photos are unusable.

 

[dabateman]

I have seen that on some rubber lens hoods like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382325585121?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=D8DJwJzrRbC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=RxqKLNPYQr-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[lukaszgryglicki]

Hmm looking quite ok, but it is too short, I rather need a long shade - it is for 105mm lens, so can be quite long. Not sure which keywords I should use to search for this.

Rains today, so I probably need to wait for IV308+U-340 test.

 

 

[Nate]

why not just try a universal hood?

[lukaszgryglicki]

I'm considering them, currently asked a few lens hood sellers if their hoods have additional internal 52mm thread.

I was looking for long hoods and metal ones.

Some already answered that their hoods doesn't have it.

I saw those rubber ones too, they are dirt cheap and some have internal thread but I prefer metal ones and longer not such wide... but will fallback to them if I found nothing else.

 

[Nate]

Gotcha, Just too bad your filter doesn't have external threads, I had some 2 inch telescope lenses with metal tubes that have ridges and very flat black paint on the inside and  I glued to a 52mm adapter that screw on to my filters.

[lukaszgryglicki]

It just doesn't but anyway, it is the only one giving UV-B and costs almost $800 - so worth looking lens hood specially for it...

 

EDIT: one more thing.... are there, say, lens thread reductions (metal rings) that have 52mm thread to mount on the lens and then on the other side two threads, say one 52mm (to mount filter or whatever) and second, say 55mm or 62, 67mm so other thing can also be mounted? Just external 2 circles one in another, 62mm and 52mm for instance (so I can find hood with 62mm thread and mount?

 

[dabateman]

Yes there are, Rafcamera is the one to email and see if they can make you something or have something. 

I have 52mm to 25mm step down rings, that have male and female 52mm threads with the 25mm female thread in the middle,  from Rafcamera. 

[lukaszgryglicki]

OK so this is exactly what I need.

Googling for rafcamera.

 

EDIT: rafcamera.com - just to confirm - standard 52mm thread is M52x0.75mm (I want to confirm thread pitch)?

 

 

[colinbm]

Three thread pitches to remember,
Most filter threads like M52 x 0.75mm pitch.
Lens M42 x 1.0mm pitch.
T2 M42 x 0.75mm pitch.

[Yves W]

There is the possibility to assemble the K4 and K5 Nikon rings + anything you want.

These rings have 52 front and rear threads and K4 = 10mm + K5 = 20mm.

My petri 135 F3.5 came with 52mm lens hood but no front thread.

 

[lukaszgryglicki]

Dan informed me that my 50R is ready, will gte it while in Detrot 22nd-30th Oct :D

Mono with naked sensor covered by only quartz glass :)