What is best BSI sensor camera to get converted?

[KhanhDam]

Looking to find a used mirrorless camera that has a BSI sensor FF  for $1000 or less used which of the following is my best option? 

Sony A7II, A7III
Sony a7RII
Nikon z6

list of BSI full cameras here:  Camera feature search: Digital Photography Review : Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

do any of the above have IR shutter issues?

 

or should i be looking at an APS sensor?
Fuji Xt30 or Xt3? 

Fujifilm X-S10

does fuji have IR shutter issues?

I thougth sony made some BSI aps cameras but dpreview doesn't list them. are 
Camera feature search: Digital Photography Review : Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

 

It has to be mirrorless so I can easily adapt whatever lens I want to it and also has to be BSI becaues I want the increased sensitivity, even if it's only 1 stop. 

 

[Yves W]

Fuji X-T2 no problem and interesting with the grip

The X-T3 and X-T4 lose sensor cleaning

[KhanhDam]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:29 PM, Yves W said:

Fuji X-T2 no problem and interesting with the grip

The X-T3 and X-T4 lose sensor cleaning

thank you, but that is not a BSI sesor. I thought all converted cameras lose sensor cleaning because we want to remove as many glass layers as possible for uv transmission??

[KhanhDam]

I didnt' find the z6 pdaf banding post because it is listed as z6/z7. 
AR7II some units have internal IR shutter sensor, newer ones have shutter without IR led.

So looks like a7III is the best (only)  used mirrorless less than $1000 for UV work as of Sept 2023.

[Akira]

Sigma fp uses a full-frame BSI 24MP sensor without PD photosites.  It an electronic shutter only camera, though.  I have no idea of the sensitivity its UV range (unusable unmodified) but I could use the unmodified camera in fairly dense IR-pass filter (850nm and 900nm) for IR landscapes:

 

 

[ulf]

I am quite happy with my A7III for UV.

As all cameras with PD-detection there sometimes can be some PD-banding when increasing the contrast a lot.
Normally I only have to do that with NIR images 850nm and the banding do not show in all of them.

 

The A7III has a very nice dynamic range and noise characteristics that allow processing the very blue-tilted RAW files from different BUG stacks.
Jonathan (JMC) found that the sensor cover window bonded directly to the sensor circuit has a cutoff of the deeper UV-A range, but that has not caused any problems for me.

The advantage of having an IBIS system that work with any lens is for me more important that the deepest UV-A  

[KhanhDam]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:05 AM, ulf said:

I am quite happy with my A7III for UV.

As all cameras with PD-detection there sometimes can be some PD-banding when increasing the contrast a lot.
Normally I only have to do that with NIR images 850nm and the banding do not show in all of them.

 

The A7III has a very nice dynamic range and noise characteristics that allow processing the very blue-tilted RAW files from different BUG stacks.
Jonathan (JMC) found that the sensor cover window bonded directly to the sensor circuit has a cutoff of the deeper UV-A range, but that has not caused any problems for me.

The advantage of having an IBIS system that work with any lens is for me more important that the deepest UV-A  

that's very interesting. I think you are one of the few UV photographers that shoots handheld. What is a typical sunny sixteen type rule for your exposure? shutter speed/ISO/Aperture/Filter combination that you like to get. I've never shot with an IBIS camera, but my gut says you'd want to keep the shutter speed at least 1/10 or higher?

[lukaszgryglicki]

I also like shooting UV handheld, doing this quite oftnen, but quality is usually low to very low.

 

[KhanhDam]

52 minutes ago, lukaszgryglicki said:

I also like shooting UV handheld, doing this quite oftnen, but quality is usually low to very low.

 

why is it so low? blurry due to subject movement? or blurry because hard to focus?

[lukaszgryglicki]

Well, either ISO must be insane like 12800 or more (and shutter speed still quite slow like 1/15s) or I must use the fastest gear I have (like f=1.2, f=1.4) wide open, with still high ISO (at least 3200-6400) and shutter speeds around 1/30s - any combination of those usually gives not that good results compared to stopped down to f=8/11/16, ISO 100-400 and and tripod.

 

[ulf]

3 hours ago, KhanhDam said:

that's very interesting. I think you are one of the few UV photographers that shoots handheld. What is a typical sunny sixteen type rule for your exposure? shutter speed/ISO/Aperture/Filter combination that you like to get. I"ve never shot with an IBIS camera, but my gut says you'd want to keep the shutter speed at least 1/10 or higher?

I am rarely doing any UV photography hand held as I want my images with good quality at full resolution.
I guess that would be OK to do that with the camera at high ISO for web images at lower resolution.

I seldom try those.

 

My experience from the past is that you always had to use a tripod for really sharp images.

Even a monopod was a great help. When you got the aid of a good  IBIS system the tripods or monopods were less needed.
That goes for both VIS and IR and naturally makes some lower resolution UV images possible too.

 

To get pixel-sharp images with modern sensors the old rules of thumb are not valid anymore.

Those rules are for rather small prints viewed at some distance.

You have to find a reasonable compromise between diffraction loss and enough DOF.

 

You can either zoom in in live view before shooting to confirm that the scene is sharp enough both in foreground and background, or use some good app to learn typical good settings.

 

This is even more important when using TS-lenses, but still quite valid for normal lenses.

I often use the Lumariver DoF app to learn and prepare for complex shoots.

https://www.lumariver.com/lrdof-manual/

The app is quit complex but when you have understood how to setup and use it it is very informative and useful.

There are several tutorials explaining the usage

[lukaszgryglicki]

My sunny-sixteen rule would translate to

At full sunlight, f=16, ISO=100, expect 10s of exposure (or even a bit more).

 

[dabateman]

To answer the title question,  the best BSI sensor would probably be the Fujifilm 100S camera. But definitely not under $1000.

For that maybe look into Panasonic S1 or S5 cameras. Also the Sigma Fp might be used for under or around $1000.

These cameras don't have PDAF, so no worries for banding.  That problem is in the Nikon Z6. The Z5 isn't BSI.

Sony seem to have IR shutter monitors,  but some places might be able to remove that for you.

[ulf]

9 hours ago, dabateman said:

Sony seem to have IR shutter monitors,  but some places might be able to remove that for you.

Not all of them. I don't know if the converter modifying mine was good at shielding of the monitor LED or if it wasn't needed

[cazza132]

I know the Canon R5 doesn't have a BSI sensor, it is still a good sensor that does well in UV.

There is a problem when using RF lenses direct with the IR shutter thing you mentioned. Kolari have a good review covering the issue.

However, there is no such problem when you adapt EF lenses to the RF mount.

The main advantage is that you can adapt EF lenses via a filter slot adaptor. I have the Kolari adaptor for the slot in filters and an IDAS adaptor with a 52mm filter slot. These maintain the correct backfocus distance with the filter installed that can be an issue with wide lenses otherwise.

All other Canon RF cameras operate in a similar manner. And there are limitless lenses that are EF mount or EF adaptable (eg old Soligor lenses).

Canon RF might be worth a look for pure flexibility and convenience. 

Also, Canon dual pixel sensors don't suffer the banding issues that others do with on sensor split AF pixels.

[Andrea B.]

Any Sunny 16 rule for UV is very dependent on the lens and filter in use -- and also dependent on the altitude, latitude and time-of-day and time-of-year !!

 

Why do you want a BSI sensor KD?  nevermind....I found the answer above.