Magnet + Sony F-828 = Instant Cheap Full Spectrum Fun!! (Images from VideoJohn)

[VideoJohn]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:09 PM, KaJashey said:

Really interesting with the emerald photo sites and magenta foliage.

 

Is the slowest exposure limited to 1/60? Some of these old Sony big lens superzooms are video cameras at heart and don't go slower than 1/60.

 

 

 

It's supposed to be something like that, maybe 1/30th, and restricted to a certain mode, but that's what the magnetic hack is for. You move the hot mirror, I think, and it gives you the full range of shutter speeds available.
 

On 7/18/2023 at 5:14 AM, Fedia said:

 

I just took the raw file you uploaded and did general adjustements. It has nice tones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely LOVELY colors. Wish I had made that version. Pops nice.

@Andrea B. You would be correct about the blossom colors. Absolutely fascinating stuff with the data and I actually could understand some of it, lol. Something I didn't mention, that I probably should have, was I was using a profile with these pictures at the start of my grading. Someone's infrared DNG settings. Subjectively, if I'm shooting in full spectrum, should I be using an infrared color profile, or any color profile at the start? I see that raw composite you have and it looks like a more natural starting point, but how do I achieve that in post? Is that some sort of DNG profile like that color profile I use?

 

[Fedia]

4 hours ago, VideoJohn said:

Absolutely LOVELY colors. Wish I had made that version. Pops nice.

Glad you like it !

 

I didn't do anything special : I opened the file in lightroom, white balanced on asphalte, maxed the saturation and added a little bit of constrast (mostly to get a bit more saturation).

 

I am trying to process the file in darktable right now and it doesn't work as good. The colors shift a little bit towards violet and i can't get to add enough saturation. So it also depends on the software. Starting from scratch when you are discovering a new camera is probably the safest way to go. The different sensors react in different way to IR light.

 

May I ask what kind of magnet you used to flip the hot mirror ? Is it the exact same as in the video ?

 

 

 

 

[VideoJohn]

17 minutes ago, Fedia said:

Glad you like it !

 

I didn't do anything special : I opened the file in lightroom, white balanced on asphalte, maxed the saturation and added a little bit of constrast (mostly to get a bit more saturation).

 

I am trying to process the file in darktable right now and it doesn't work as good. The colors shift a little bit towards violet and i can't get to add enough saturation. So it also depends on the software. Starting from scratch when you are discovering a new camera is probably the safest way to go. The different sensors react in different way to IR light.

 

May I ask what kind of magnet you used to flip the hot mirror ? Is it the exact same as in the video ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well it looks very nice. 

This is the magnet I bought, looks identical to the one in the video. I have mixed feelings. Its size makes it kinda difficult to manage. You have to flip the mirror each time you turn the camera on and off to get full spectrum access, which means you have to take the magnet with you unless you plan to leave your camera running the whole time. What I ended up doing was adding a metal clasp to my neckstrap and it sticks on that for easy access when I take the camera out. It seems secure, but I've already had that magnet randomly stick to things it shouldn't because it's so powerful. There was a warning that came with the magnet and it's not a joke. Keys, cars, cameras, this magnet loves to stick to metal.
 

[Andrea B.]

John writes: If I'm shooting in full spectrum, should I be using an infrared color profile, or any color profile at the start? I see that raw composite you have and it looks like a more natural starting point, but how do I achieve that in post? Is that some sort of DNG profile like that color profile I use?

 

When I'm shooting with a full-spectrum camera and IR filter, I often make an in-camera white balance "against the scene" OR against a PTFE white standard. This is because choosing one of the camera settings like Daylight or Sunny (or whatever) creates a red channel overload that can make it difficult to determine proper exposure and difficult to see details. 

 

An alternate trick is to choose a monochrome setting and shoot in B&W. That makes it fairly easy to control blown highlights and to determine where the midtones are to get the best exposure.

 

In either case, the raw image can be processed later for desired color in whatever image converter you typically use.

 

There are some converters which permit you perform a demosaic, auto-scale and gamma curve application only. That is, without any application white balance. I know of Photo Ninja and Darktable (free) as two apps which can do this. I'm sure there are others.

[Fedia]

As some of you have seen in my other post today, I now have a Sony f828. I decided to get one when I saw the blue it produced in full spectrum mode. These are a few photos I made with the camera earlier today. I used the DB850 and the "dirty white" Lee gel as filters. I processed the images from the RAW files in Ligtroom.

I went for a very contrasted slide film aesthetic. The Lee gel is complicated to fit on the lens, so if i'm not zooming a lot we can see it doesn't cover all the frame. This deffect makes it look like film even more.

 

 

 

[colinbm]

These are pretty wild.

[VideoJohn]

5 hours ago, Fedia said:

As some of you have seen in my other post today, I now have a Sony f828. I decided to get one when I saw the blue it produced in full spectrum mode. These are a few photos I made with the camera earlier today. I used the DB850 and the "dirty white" Lee gel as filters. I processed the images from the RAW files in Ligtroom.

I went for a very contrasted slide film aesthetic. The Lee gel is complicated to fit on the lens, so if i'm not zooming a lot we can see it doesn't cover all the frame. This deffect makes it look like film even more.

 

 

 

 

Guess we're both trying to paint with the same brush. F828 shoot out at high noon sometime perhaps, lol? Can't wait to go see what else you'll make with this little fella. I hope we don't start a trend :). He's fun to shoot with, isn't he? That rotating body is just so different from where we are today. It's a very refreshing feeling for me when I use it. How do you feel about you? 

Put this image out today and it's by far one of my favorite images I've made with the f828 so far. It feels so filmy; ya know. Lots of post work, but nothing takes away from what the base image is. Like Fandyus said in your other thread, there's just something about that sensor that can do things other sensors can't.

The Lee gel is just a strip, right? Why not attach it to a step up ring somehow after you've attached it to the f828?

My latest problem - lens hood. Mine didn't come with it, so I've bought an alternative. Boy, is it not friendly with the lens cap or attaching in general. What's your solution or are you lucky enough to have the original piece?

Are you looking at your export sizes from the raws? If you're doing 300dpis at 100%, can I ask what MB range you're getting?

[colinbm]

How rustic is this.

 

[Fedia]

4 hours ago, VideoJohn said:

It's a very refreshing feeling for me when I use it. How do you feel about you?

I like the zoom a lot. I like to shoot at long focal lengths but with a deep depth of field : the small sensor allows this. It feels like a semi-pro video camera which I like. I had trouble focussing for those pictures, I don't know why, maybe the autofocus is confused when using the camera in full spectrum mode. I think I have to get used to the camera.

The camera I ordered has all the accessories including the lens hood and lens cap which are usable together.

 

Very nice photo you got here ! I compared the sizes : yours is twice as big as mine but it's also way sharper, so the Jpeg algorithms couldn't throw away as much details, I think. The Lightroom export I made was full size Jpeg, 100% quality. I'm not very familiar with the "dpi" way or representing resolution, so I don't know if i'm answering correctly. It's a printing norm right ?

[Fedia]

Thats how I set it up. The DB850 is mounted first and then the gel is taped to a cokin filter mount.

 

 

[Fedia]

For those who are wondering, the magnet can be smaller than the one in the video that doesn't seem to be easily avaliable in europe. The one I have is a stack of four small neodyme magnets.

 

[VideoJohn]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:08 AM, Fedia said:

It feels like a semi-pro video camera which I like.

 

 

 

I know right. Sony has always been about that video and this thing handles like what a dream super 16mm would probably look like. Pity the video quality is so bad, even with the Sony priority cards. What memory solution are you using? I've read nothing bigger than 4gigs is suspposed to work, but I have this Transcend CF card and I swear it says I can take 1500 photos on it. I don't really trust the cf slot thought. I keep having access issues when I do something. Perhaps hit the side. I'm not sure what causes it. I got a 4gig knock off Sony with adapter and it gives me like 100+ shots so it's fine. 
 

 

On 7/30/2023 at 5:08 AM, Fedia said:

I had trouble focussing for those pictures, I don't know why, maybe the autofocus is confused when using the camera in full spectrum mode. I think I have to get used to the camera.

 

Theory: have you turned on the macro button on the side of the lens? I'm still not exactly sure how that works, but I think it messes with the focus a tad when it's on and you're not shooting macro. Which focus method are you using? The small singular point seems to work best overall from my expereince

 

On 7/30/2023 at 5:08 AM, Fedia said:

I compared the sizes : yours is twice as big as mine

 

What did you compare to? The leaf photo was all photoshopped and whatnot. Typical Jpegs from RAWs are over 10mbs it seems, so I'm not completely disappointed in the overall size, just curious if you were getting similar results. I kept reading it was a 8MB camera, but I think that's just for the Jpegs. The Raws will make larger files. DPI is a printing norm, yes.

 

On 7/30/2023 at 2:06 PM, Fedia said:

For those who are wondering, the magnet can be smaller than the one in the video that doesn't seem to be easily avaliable in europe. The one I have is a stack of four small neodyme magnets.

 

That's what I tried at first and I had no luck. Perhaps I have the wrong magnets, but I had to buy the longer one because that trick didn't work.

So your methodology to attach the filter is basically the same.

[Fedia]

I'm using both the "memory stick" proprietary card and a CF. I think both are 1GB and both work fine, exept of course the "fine" quality video that only works on the memory stick. The camera came with the two, since I found the magnets at home, I had nothing to buy aside the camera.

 

I actually like the video image (in fine mode), it looks really altered and desaturated. It kind of transports you in another era. I was really disapointed when I realised Resolve didn't support these old mpg. files. I would have liked to see how they graded. Do you by any chance know what software would accept these files ?

 

I will check the macro button and also to try different focus methods but the abscence of the Hot mirror makes the camera short sighted a little bit, and the live view doesn't allow to judge the focus properly. The focus doesn't go beyond infinity since its electronicaly driven. So to get far away things in focus it is better to step the aperture down I think. Its okay I'm used to this with full spectrum cameras by now.

 

On 8/1/2023 at 1:15 AM, VideoJohn said:

What did you compare to?

I compared the size of your leaf photo (~6MB) to the size of my photos from Lighroom (~3MB). I set the Jpeg quality to 100% and full res. The difference we get is strange.

 

Out of the camera I'd say the Jpegs are around 3MB as well, but the raw files are much bigger, I'd say 15MB, and there incredibly slow to save to the memory card. (I understand now that your question was rather about the files the camera outputs).

 

On 8/1/2023 at 1:15 AM, VideoJohn said:

So your methodology to attach the filter is basically the same.

For now at least, maybe later I will replace the dirty white gel with a 85 type glass filter (full CTO) since they are really really close. But just now I like the crazy spotlight look the gel with the cokin filter holder gives to the camera.

 

On 7/30/2023 at 7:00 AM, VideoJohn said:

I hope we don't start a trend :)

Did you see @Fandyus is getting one also  ? I think the F828 trend had already started with the snapinness video, I saw the price of the camera rise since the video went out. Better than a trend we are starting a club !!

 

[Fandyus]

Yes, mine should be here tomorrow (today, since it's past midnight), I hope all goes well. Though I don't have a magnet. Might still do some tests on how the color reproduction differs from a normal RGB camera. Or I'll run to the store to see if they have some.

[photoni]

On 8/2/2023 at 2:18 AM, Fandyus said:

Or I'll run to the store to see if they have some

.

Unmount an old hard drive
there is a 2 very strong magnet inside

i think neodimio

.

[ulf]

1 hour ago, photoni said:

.

Unmount an old hard drive
there is a very strong magnet inside

.

If it is just a strong magnet that is needed that is an excellent and cheap way to obtain one.

 

You have to have suitable tools to open the drive though.

The disc platters inside can also be harvested. They are very flat and can be used for some optical experiments as mirrors.

At the same time, take a look at the read head assembly. There are tiny structures and examples of high speed electronics that can be interesting to examine. 

 

From the instructions shown before they use a long cylindrical magnet or magnet stack to deactivate the IR-filter in the camera.

It might be that the shape of the magnetic field from a hard drive magnet is less suitable to deactivate the camera filter.

[Fandyus]

5 hours ago, photoni said:

.

Unmount an old hard drive
there is a very strong magnet inside

.

Thanks for the tip, though I don't really have any old drives that I could use right now. I suppose if you do that, it ruins the hard drive right?

[Fandyus]

Update again: the camera is here now. Looks very clean and unused, so that is good. It's still charging so I only took a single photo. Works fine tho. There are also some old what looks like vacation photos from 2021 on the card. Feels like I'm seeing something I shouldn't be.

[Fedia]

12 hours ago, Fandyus said:

Might still do some tests on how the color reproduction differs from a normal RGB camera

That would be interesting. I also would like to know how the emerald channel is dispatched in the output RGB channels. Is there a way to know the files from this camera are supposed to demosaiced ?

I'm going to search the internet for an answer but even if the info was explicitly given at one point it's probably forgotten now...

 

My one still had pictures on it an even a long video recorded by mistake. It was indeed strange ti watch. The guy from the snapinness youtube channel talks about this. It happens a lot when you buy old used cameras. He actually keeps and collects the most intresting images !

[Fandyus]

@Fedia I have no idea how this influences demosaicing. Darktable seems to be kind of confused with the files, sometimes slightly changing the hue of colors when I zoom, ca correction does not work at all, color profiles do different things than with an RGB camera. But the colors look fine though, nothing too strange.

[VideoJohn]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:02 PM, Fedia said:

Do you by any chance know what software would accept these files ?

 

Mpg....wooooo. Premiere takes just about everything. You should be able to convert the mpg to something Resolve likes. Try VLC.

 

On 8/1/2023 at 7:02 PM, Fedia said:

I compared the size of your leaf photo (~6MB) to the size of my photos from Laramie (~3MB). I set the Jpeg quality to 100% and full res. The difference we get is strange.

 

Well the leaf photo has been heavily processed.

 

On 8/1/2023 at 7:02 PM, Fedia said:

and there incredibly slow to save to the memory card.

 

 

I jokingly say this camera is the medium format shooter of the Sony Cyber-Shot series because of how slow that raw is.