Article: "Monochrome Camera Conversion: Effect on Sensitivity for Multispectral Imaging (Ultraviolet, Visible, and Infrared)"

[JMC]

Blimey this thread has come along since I last logged in.

 

Here's the link to some of the work David and I did on making AF UV lenses - https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php?/topic/4871-how-i-created-an-autofocus-fused-silica-lens-for-uv-photography/

 

[KhanhDam]

MaxMax.com wants $2500 +SH each way Is there any place less expensive for Mono conversions? LifePixel and Kolarivision dont' remove bayer layers. 
 

What is the best sensor cover glass to get put on top of the sensor and who sells it? 

 

Lastly has anyone tried using a UVC light source to fade the organic dyes in the bayer layer? Maybe the sensor glass cover blocks the UVC light? Maybe the micro lenses block the UV light from hitting the RGB layer? 

[Andy Perrin]

Quote

MaxMax.com wants $2500 +SH each way Is there any place less expensive for Mono conversions? 

I see you are discovering the facts of life. Mono conversions are expensive everywhere. They are difficult, have a high probability of failing, and are done by few people who can set their price as they please.

 

Quote

Lastly has anyone tried using a UVC light source to fade the organic dyes in the bayer layer? Maybe the sensor glass cover blocks the UVC light? Maybe the micro lenses block the UV light from hitting the RGB layer? 

I think someone did try to fade the bayer layer but I don't recall the details, I might be misremembering. The sensor glass does often block the UVC. Jonathan had his changed. It depends on the camera manufacturer though. Jonathan got a camera with half the Bayer removed and half still in place and found from that that the microlenses didn't seem to be hurting transmission in that camera. We don't know if that's always true. 

[KhanhDam]

Yep makes a used Leica Monochrom 18mp for $2600 to $3500 a better deal. Just have to remove the hot filter which most places only charge about $300 for.

[lukaszgryglicki]

As for coverglass for mono conversion- I've ordered quartz glass passing from 180nm... maxmax has that option...

 

[photoni]

7 hours ago, KhanhDam said:

yesterday you said ...
I think cost is the main factor with the Leica. One can get a modified camera for less.

 

today

MaxMax.com wants $2500 +SH each way Is there any place less expensive for Mono conversions? LifePixel and Kolarivision dont' remove bayer layers. 

 

if you have some money think of a "leica m monochrom typ 246"

on Ebay there are two in germany for 3300 €

(not the old M9 with sensor problems)

 

I don't think it is expensive to remove the VIS filter and replace it with a quartz one,

plus you will have micro lenses ... for a light gain and good for wide angle lenses

[KhanhDam]

yeah for some reason I thought it was less than $1000 to get the conversion. I swear when I looked into in a while ago there was a company offering it for that price now I can't find them.

[dabateman]

2 hours ago, KhanhDam said:

yeah for some reason I thought it was less than $1000 to get the conversion. I swear when I looked into in a while ago there was a company offering it for that price now I can't find them.

Your thinking of monochrome imaging: 

https://www.monochromeimaging.com/odering/

 

Although it looks like Dan has raised prices again and its now $1200. I was considering this at $600 APS-C or $800 for a 135 format Sony camera.

But I have read that he has converted more than just Sony cameras, including a Sigma Fp.

[Andy Perrin]

Oh ANOTHER Dan! How many are we up to now? (New people: it is a long-running joke on UVP that every full spectrum conversion company is staffed with people named Dan/Daniel. )

[KhanhDam]

2 hours ago, dabateman said:

Your thinking of monochrome imaging: 

https://www.monochromeimaging.com/odering/

 

Although it looks like Dan has raised prices again and its now $1200. I was considering this at $600 APS-C or $800 for a 135 format Sony camera.

But I have read that he has converted more than just Sony cameras, including a Sigma Fp.

So does max max do a better job? Or do they just charge 2x the price because they are a monopoly on non Sony cameras?

[dabateman]

4 hours ago, Andy Perrin said:

Oh ANOTHER Dan! How many are we up to now? (New people: it is a long-running joke on UVP that every full spectrum conversion company is staffed with people named Dan/Daniel. )

All but Kolari seem to be named Dan.

@KhanhDam,

Dan of MaxMax does it differently.  I personally think he uses an expensive milling machine,  to remove the top lenses and color filter array. Basically finely cutting the top off the sensor, so can work with almost any sensor. He didn't want to try an Olympus camera,  when I asked him years ago, as the IBIS is in the way.

Dan of Monochrome Imaging,  found a chemical trick, that seems to only work with Sony made sensors.

[lukaszgryglicki]

I hope I'll see quite soon :P (now waiting for quartz coverglass).

 

[colinbm]

I just don't understand why it is not possible for the sensor makers to pull out a sensor from the production line before the CFA & microlenes are applied & sell them to us ?
 

[Andy Perrin]

We are not numerous enough to be a market worth chasing.

[dabateman]

One day a camera company other than Leica and Phase One will release a monochrome sensor. 

The Pixii appears to have a patent to provide a "true" monochrome result from a CFA sensor: 

https://pixii.fr/monochrome

 

But as photography with dedicated camera,  rather than cellphone, seems to be a niche market . Than manufacturers will release high cost low run items to get some of the specialized market. 

I think Sony might be first, as they make the most monochrome sensors for industrial use.  A major company might cancel an order one day, leaving them with a bunch of sensors, than we might see it added to a compatible camera, to see them test the waters.

 

[lukaszgryglicki]

Unfortunatelly (at least for me) mmany many devices are becoming obsolete because of all those stupid smartphones... they slowly kill everything that has any quality and replace with themselves (able to do everything, but good at nothing). Like I can see less laptops, less video cameras, less photo cameras and so on...

Similar to PC-games in the past, where you could (even now) install in some device/OS emulator and they will work fine, now each game needs a dedicated server running "on the other side" (via internet) so once the game's dedicated servers are turned off/removed - the game is no longer usable. It is only usable for a few year max, requiring internet connection etc - then it goes to void. Even hard disks - we used to store movies/music on HDD and then we could use it anywhere, now it becomes stored in cloud/internet and can be removed anytime without our control or just when price skyrocets because Apple or any other corpo decides to do so. You can't even have "your own" fav. movie now stored on any disk etc - when you buy it, say on DVD it is illegal to copy it, put on pen drive etc. Why can't I just buy my FAV movie as MP4 file and watch on anything I want? As a 16 year experience software developer I hate this new internet-only approach with everything, same with those "smart" phones (they are smart only for producers, they make people literally stupid one-cell organisms), also smart watches etc. Internet (take YouTube as an example) was a very good and usable medium years back - now it is overloaded with ads and paid services that makes you crazy - I used to use YT daily, year back, now with their now "premium" feature they become one single think that I rejected most times ever (there is no other thing in the world which I said "no thanks" more times that this crap).

 

[colinbm]

And UV photography continues to evolve & grew.....

[lukaszgryglicki]

I guess I'm always hunting the opposite things/subjects that everybody else - it is the same with me in all life areas. Grow & evolution of UV photography is something that I really like & enjoy.

 

[Doug A]

@lukaszgryglickiagree with you, phones are killing many things I enjoy. Most families used to have a hifi system. Now they listen to walkie-talkie smart speakers. Cameras aren't fairing much better. Why buy an expensive camera when a phone has four? Many people care very little about quality.

 

UV photography is growing. I'm glad we have this great community and companies willing to modify and build equipment for our special uses. It gives hope for the future.

 

Thanks,

Doug A

[Daniel Gawędzki]

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[Daniel Gawędzki]

On 8/19/2022 at 3:02 PM, dabateman said:

All but Kolari seem to be named Dan.

@KhanhDam,

Dan of MaxMax does it differently.  I personally think he uses an expensive milling machine,  to remove the top lenses and color filter array. Basically finely cutting the top off the sensor, so can work with almost any sensor. He didn't want to try an Olympus camera,  when I asked him years ago, as the IBIS is in the way.

Dan of Monochrome Imaging,  found a chemical trick, that seems to only work with Sony made sensors.

Could you please tell me more of the chemical trick if possible? I've been trying to devise a chemical solution for a while, but it never quite got working for me. I'd be excited to hear.

[Andy Perrin]

I am pretty sure Dan of Monochrome Imaging is not going to tell anyone the details. Trade secret.