Verbascum?

[Andrea B.]

These photos were made in Rome in 2012.

 

I see this as a Verbascum in the family Scrophulariaceae.

Any idea what the species might be?

The flowers are much less sparse on the stalk than I usually see in my local (US) Verbascum such as V. thapsus.

 

Orange anthers.

 

 

There is space between the flower clusters along the stem.

 

 

The plant is tall with spreading branches.

[nfoto]

The genus ID is apparently correct. Without a local flora in hand, I'll stop there. Or perhaps I might unearth my Flora Europaea and starting looking at its intricate keys?

[Andrea B.]

Or perhaps I might unearth my Flora Europaea and starting looking at its intricate keys?

 

That Flora might be propping up some part of an important photo project. Better leave it in place.

[nfoto]

Nah. Fl.Europ. is the ultimate endpoint for any floristic search. And I know where to find the 5 tomes, if it hasn't moved since last being used!!

[nfoto]

OK, a quick consultation with Fl.Europ. Vol.3 resulted in a list of eighty -two- 82 - species of Verbascum in the region. A few can be immediately eliminated, but I didn't get deep into the comprehensive 2 1/2 page key (plus additional group subkeys) before I was prevented to go further, due to lack of the required answers.

[Andrea B.]

Thank you for looking in the Fl.Europ. 

 

I had no idea that Verbascum were so varied!!

So I will simply give my photo the name "Verbascum" without a species designation. 

 

I looked in Flora of North America to find that we have 12 introduced species. But I don't think I've ever seen anything besides V. thapsus.

[nfoto]

V. thapsus and V. nigrum are the common ones here, but I've seen a couple of the introduced ones as well. Apart from being easy to see they belong to Verbascum, getting any further can be tiresome and require good keys. And a lot of patience on the botanist's part.

[Andrea B.]

I do enjoy the ID process though. It helps me learn plant characteristics and botanical terminology. I should try to look for an Italian key for future reference.

 

LATER:  going to try this one. http://dryades.units.it/floritaly/

Not a key, but a carefully curated checklist and quite a lot of photos.

 

[dancingcat]

My phone app "Seek" says its Wavyleaf Mullein, Verbascum sinuatum.

[Andy Perrin]

Are you putting the app’s ID for the lulz, dancingcat? I mean, I was under the impression that apps were pretty so-so at plant ID. 

[nfoto]

In a region where floras report > 50 species in a genus, any AI-generated determination is to be treated with utmost suspicion.  It *might* be correct, however more likely to be incorrect.

[dancingcat]

"Seek" is based on the iNaturalist image database, so pretty accurate for common things in North America anyways.  It has led me astray occasionally though to be honest.  It's pretty reliable for genus.  For European or Asian species where there isn't a good iNat data basis, I'd want a key.  I use Seek regularly in the field and I'd say for US plants it's 90% good to species.  But I do check when I get home with my key resources to make sure I have the species right.  AI is useful for image recognition, to get you into the right family and genus anyway, but always skeptical...

[nfoto]

Andrea's Verbascum was from Italy. Europe has 80+ species in this genus.

[Andy Perrin]

8 hours ago, dancingcat said:

AI is useful for image recognition, to get you into the right family and genus anyway, but always skeptical...

Yeah, that seems reasonable. If you are just trying to get in the right ball park (genus) without actually narrowing it to species. I must say, I have become spoiled by the availability of trained botanists on this forum like nfoto... 

[dancingcat]

re AI for ID.. I found a wild plum in one of our prairie remnants yesterday, in bloom, and dang but 'Seek' could only offer "Plum", which I knew from the flowers anyways.  There are maybe 10 different plums in Texas, and the flowers are all very similar and some interbreed so always a challenge.  Not having our local live botanists available, I was driven to the botanical key for N. TX Prunus.  Finally got the species with a hand lens on the edge of the leaf.  Gaaah.  But a nice find.. fairly rare wild around here.  Took visible and UV photos of it and preparing it for the botanicals section.  So much for AI on this one... needed an actual key.  I should post the 'mystery plum' today sometime.

 

[Andrea B.]

Finally got the species with a hand lens on the edge of the leaf.  Gaaah.

 

Yep, sometimes you have to get down into the itty-bitty details. 

That Chickasaw Plum was indeed a nice find.