[Medium format] Are there any accidental UV-capable lenses?

[lukaszgryglicki]

Just like we have a section about accidental UV-capable lenses - most of them are M42 with short focal flange distance - are there any non-dedcaated (so not costing over $10k) medium format lenses?

Like for example for 6x6 or 6x7 or large format? Ideally very old, very small number of elements and uncoated?

Maybe we can adapt some 1930s large format lens? Or something similar?

All of them shoudl have a long FFD, probably over 60mm or even 100mm - also their mounts are usually big - so it shoudl be possibel toadapt them to smaller formats...

I'll test Pentax 67 to Nikon-F mount adapter with a few Pentax 67  lenses soon - but I actually don't have any professional devices to test for transmission charts, so can you give me any suggestion of how to test such lenses?

I have: 

- SMC 45/4.

- SMC 55/4.

- SMC 105/2.4.

- SMC 165/2.8.

But all of them are super multi coated (SMC) so I guess they will be very poor. How to test this?

 

[dabateman]

None of my Pentacon six lenses are good in UV.

I have tested 

Zeiss 50mm F4 single coated 

Zeiss 50mm f4 multi coated 

Zeiss 120mm f2.8

Zeiss 180mm f2.8 Olympic 

55mm shift lens.

 

The zeiss 80mm f2.8 was pushed to see some UV, but its not great. Most likely only seeing 385nm at best. It being so bad os how I found this site in the first place back in 2017, looking for a better lens for my Sigma SD14 camera. 

 

The Zeiss 50mm f4 lenses are so bad for reflectance that they might be perfect for UV induced fluorescence.  I couldn't even see a 405nm line with mine.

 

I didn't test the Arsat 30mm fisheye,  before I sold it. It took a rear mount filter. But I doubt it would be good. Actually I now hope its not, as I sold it and mine was mint. I just never used that focal length.  

[lukaszgryglicki]

That's a bad news... :-(

I was hoping that medium format/large format lenses (older ones) can be good. I mean when medium/large was something "typical" - full frame was just a new small format for smaller cameras (SLRs etc.) - I was hoping for really old lenses with just 3 or 4 elements without any coating...

 

[Guest]

If you have a medium format triplet that might be a good candidate. 

[diant]

33 minutes ago, Blazer0ne said:

If you have a medium format triplet that might be a good candidate. 

Yes, there are a lot of triplet lenses which cover 6x6. The other question - bayonet or, speaking more correctly, its absence.

Many folded pocket cameras in first half of XX century had a triplets with moderate slow aperture and so with enough thin middle flint glass. They are all may be good.

[Andy Perrin]

What about the EL-Nikkor enlarger lenses? We know they pass UV well, but do they have a large image circle?

[nfoto]

The 105 and 135mm EL-Nikkors should be obvious candidates.

[dabateman]

Ulf indicates that the Nikkor 80mm EL 80mm f5.6 lens covers 56x72mm.

So that would be my go to medium format lens.

The 6x6 format is actually 56mm x 56mm of film space and my favorite.  So that should work out fine.

If someone is looking to give me a Christmas gift,  I would gladly accept a Fuji 50S mk2. That camera has 33mm x 44mm sensor.  So the EL would also work well on it.

 

If I have a nanosecond of free time I will test it on the Nons with Fuji instax film.  The film area is 62mm x 46mm. But the shutter gets in the way of full coverage.  Fortunately,  I also have the full coverage adapter and the glass its made of has UV transmission cutoff at 350nm. So I will try with and without the adapter with the EL 80mm to see what its like.

[OlDoinyo]

I have used the Minolta Autocord for UV. The transmission of its 75mm Rokkor-X is not outstanding compared to the best lenses, but not horrible either. I took my first UV pictures with it.

[dabateman]

Without adapter the EL Nikkor 80mm F5.6 lens at F5.6 shows an image circle at the sides, but not the top of the Instax film.  However,  I am certain this is due to the shutter, a known issue for this camera and not the lens imaging circle being too small. So it easily covers 46mm, the height of the film.

[lukaszgryglicki]

My EL-Nikkor 80/5.6 assemble is half done (missing 34x0.5 mm filter conversion and helicoid - both on the way). I've actually considered such lenses for use on 36x24mm (normal full frame) so image circle of 44mm is enough - I've asked for medium/large format rather because they're/may be:

- Older, so worst coating or no coating, chance for less elements, no cemented elements.

- The most important: large flange focal distance.

- Less important for me (actually almost non-important): image circle size.

 

I'm on KubeCon NA LA (virtual) atm so my answers will be delayed.

 

[Andy Perrin]

I think if you are just looking for general good “accidental” UV lenses, then searching for medium format is not the way to go. I would think there would be fewer such lenses, so reduce your chances. 
 

We have found that in the past these types have proven good candidates:

1) enlarger lenses

2) projector lenses

3) 24mm movie camera lenses like the Wollensak

 

obviously not an exhaustive list. 

[lukaszgryglicki]

Yeah but most others (full frame, I don't want smaller) are M42 - they must be too close to sensor. So maybe I should ask just for lenses with FFD >= ~48mm.

EDIT:

1) I'm already assembling setup for EL Nikkor 75/4 (new, plastic) & EL-Nikkor 80/5.6 (old metal version).

[Andy Perrin]

Search the sticky first. 

[lukaszgryglicki]

Believe me I did, every single lens there + ebay search, even considered UAT for $4900 - but after asking on that sticky thread I see it won't focus any further than 20 feet.

[photoni]

5 hours ago, dabateman said:

If someone is looking to give me a Christmas gift,  I would gladly accept a Fuji 50S mk2. That camera has 33mm x 44mm sensor.  So the EL would also work well on it.

I think that for Christmas 2021 an old used GFX 50s can be found at 1200 ~ 1800 €

with an old lens for 24x36 if you don't do panoramas you cover the whole format

[dabateman]

1 hour ago, photoni said:

I think that for Christmas 2021 an old used GFX 50s can be found at 1200 ~ 1800 €

with an old lens for 24x36 if you don't do panoramas you cover the whole format

Excellent Photoni, should I send you my mailing address :

 

Lukaszgryglicki,

the back flange distance on the Nikkor 80mm EL f5.6 lens is 70/71mm. I think you may have the best lens in your hands now. Just test it out on your system. 

 

Andy,

I think you ment 35mm f3.5 lenses.  The 25mm Wollensak isn't that great for UV

 Nor are other C-mount lenses.  But they are ok for UVA in the sunlight. The 4-12mm surprised me.

 

[Andy Perrin]

2 hours ago, dabateman said:

Andy,

I think you ment 35mm f3.5 lenses.  The 25mm Wollensak isn't that great for UV

 Nor are other C-mount lenses.  But they are ok for UVA in the sunlight. The 4-12mm surprised me.

No, I meant what I said, the 25mm Wollensak Velostigmat, is indeed quite good for UVA. Iggy was the one who originally spotted it, but I got one, and it does indeed do a good job as long as you aren't expecting to get to UVB or something. Or even much past 350nm, but honestly, we rarely do that. My copy tends to be very very soft, but for certain applications that's desirable. It has pretty bokeh. Very tiny image circle though, probably best for micro-4/3.

https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php?/topic/986-cctv-lens-for-uv/&tab=comments#comment-4054

 

[lukaszgryglicki]

Yeah EL-Nikkor 80/5.6 (old metal version) should be good, can't wait for a helicoid to arrive from China and filter ring adapter from Russia.