Alternative way to monochrome convert a camera

[dabateman]

I am not sure if others saw this. But with recent laser excitment this might be possible for some people here.

 

https://hackaday.com/2021/08/09/using-a-laser-to-blast-away-a-bayer-array/

 

In this video he is blasting off the microlenses and color filter array with the 337nm line from his laser. Quite clean.

 

This should also emphasize why pointing a UV laser at a camera is a bad idea.

[Andy Perrin]

Haha, no, not possible for me anyhow, or not anytime soon. I mean, just the stepper-motor controlled microscope stage is probably more money than just buying a debayered Pi from MaxMax.

 

I have to say, though, if my name happened to be "Dan" and I converted cameras for a living (as all Dans do, apparently), I would be strongly tempted to look into building such an apparatus because the efficiency (sensors converted without breakage) is probably quite high, which makes it a good investment if you have to convert a large number of sensors.

[colinbm]

Thanks Dave, the future is promising.

[photoni]

it's probably easier to buy a 5.795,00 € Leica Q2 Monochrom (47 Mpx)

or better still a € 8,490 ... M10 Monochrome (40 Mpx)

and have the hot pass filter removed

[colinbm]

it's probably easier to buy a 5.795,00 € Leica Q2 Monochrom (47 Mpx)

or better still a € 8,490 ... M10 Monochrome (40 Mpx)

and have the hot pass filter removed

 

But they have micro-lenses that we don't know the transmittance of, as well as the cover glass on the sensor itself, which can block some UVA.

The guy in the video didn't mention anything about removing & replacing the cover glass.

[Stefano]

But also does this method leave some "CFA dust" trapped between the sensor and the coverglass?

[colinbm]

But also does this method leave some "CFA dust" trapped between the sensor and the coverglass?

 

He flushed out the bare sensor with isopropyl alcohol.

[Stefano]

I didn't watch the video, but I found the cleaning part at around 22:42. He "injects" the alcohol with a syringe, so does this mean that the coverglass is not completely sealed?

[colinbm]

I didn't watch the video, but I found the cleaning part at around 22:42. He "injects" the alcohol with a syringe, so does this mean that the coverglass is not completely sealed?

 

There is no cover glass when he washes the BARE sensor.

[Stefano]

OK, so he has a completely "naked" sensor, with literally nothing. Without the limitations of the coverglass, he can easily see UVC with appropriate lenses.

[photoni]

I think he took the hot pass filter off before doing that science fiction job

I do not know the material of the microlenses of the Leica, but even if it blocks a part of UV it is always better than an empirical transformation

.

I saw that there is a laboratory in the USA that does the complete conversion of a Nikon D850 to monochrome full spectrum, I don't know what they do

[colinbm]

I think he took the hot pass filter off before doing that science fiction job

I do not know the material of the microlenses of the Leica, but even if it blocks a part of UV it is always better than an empirical transformation

 

The 'Hot Mirror', IR cut filter, was in the lens holder that he removed first.

[dabateman]

I think he took the hot pass filter off before doing that science fiction job

I do not know the material of the microlenses of the Leica, but even if it blocks a part of UV it is always better than an empirical transformation

.

I saw that there is a laboratory in the USA that does the complete conversion of a Nikon D850 to monochrome full spectrum, I don't know what they do

 

Was that LDP (MaxMax). Dan does a great job and uses mechanical removal using a very sophisticated machine.

 

The raspberry pi HQ camera in monochrome I bought from him after convincing him to do one. Its excellent.

 

Years ago I tried to get him to do an Olympus Em5mk2. But he said he couldn't due to the IBIS unit.

 

The advantage of this lazer idea is that wouldn't be a problem. But a Nitrogen laser seems to cost $5000 to $30000. So not something I could do. Unless I score one off Ebay like the person in this video did for very cheap.

 

Andy,

The Nema 23 stepper motors, a raspberry pi to drive them and a xy stage would cost you about $200 to $250. So cheaper than a converted camera. But then there is the multi thousand dollar laser purchase that puts you over.

[bobfriedman]

the key here is that they are advertising a 1:1 yield. often there is breakage and the yield can take 2 to 3:1 sensors to make a good one.. this is why the cost is high (sensor replacements for failed conversion).

 

I would love to drive the cost down for this... Since I purchased a Fuji GFX 100s, I had a Fuji GFX 50r that I wanted to convert to monochrome but it was way too expensive given the potential sensor replacement cost. I ended up selling the 50r and used the money to buy a new GF lens for my new 100s.

[Andy Perrin]

the key here is that they are advertising a 1:1 yield.

 

Yeah…like I said, if I were a “Dan” I would be really interested in this.

[dabateman]

I actually saw a couple MNL 100 Nitrogen lasers on the bay for under $500.

So for not too much, this may be possible.

But I will not venture there. Lasers around the house might just be too dangerous.

[Andrea B.]

Or you could just buy that Monochrome Leica like Toni said. It works quite well. I got mine used at a good discount from the Lens Rental sale site. Those Mono Leicas are very "simple" cameras. Not many settings at all. Thus very easy to use.

[colinbm]

Or you could just buy that Monochrome Leica like Toni said. It works quite well. I got mine used at a good discount from the Lens Rental sale site. Those Mono Leicas are very "simple" cameras. Not many settings at all. Thus very easy to use.

 

How far into UV does the Leica Mono cameras go ?

[Stefano]

I would bet it can reach UVB, I have recently discovered that my Canon EOS M can see down to 315-320 nm which looks green in raw, but it depends mostly on the coverglass. The microlenses probably do not block UVB completely.

[bobfriedman]

I had my monochrome conversion (maxmax) with a BG-38 coverglass replacement for the cut filter. the reason was that I wanted UV but not IR as the focus shift was counter productive for visible work (original intended purpose).

 

I would suspect that the Leica has a cut-filter of some sort.

[Guest]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:00 AM, dabateman said:

I actually saw a couple MNL 100 Nitrogen lasers on the bay for under $500.

So for not too much, this may be possible.

But I will not venture there. Lasers around the house might just be too dangerous.

You could very easily mount that laser onto an existing 3D printer and drive the routine with Gcode.

 

In fact you wouldn’t even have to modify the software controller for the printer. Gcode can handle all the movements. You can set the Z axis manually. 

 

Really the most work would be making the tool head carrier to hold the laser and the sensor cradle on the bed.  Both can be 3d printed. 
 

These things even have a small blower fan with hookups already in place. That could be used to dust off the scraps. 

[Dmitry]

I got an idea for a lazy long time transform. We know that colors fade over time with prolonged exposure to direct sunlight. How resistant are the dyes on the sensor to such exposure? You can speed up the process by applying a more appropriate exposure using other light sources. It is not necessary to precisely focus the light to one point and expose the sensor to the risk of overheating, it is necessary to illuminate the entire sensor evenly at once, it is a matter of time and patience.

 

[Andy Perrin]

If the dyes faded due to visible light at normal intensities, then that would be really bad for the function of the camera in normal use because colors would alter over the life of the camera. I would posit, therefore, that this is not the case. The dyes must be stable to visible light at normal intensities. So presumably we would need UV illumination at a relatively higher intensity. Of course that was where this thread began...

[dabateman]

So if the dyes bleach out using UV light. You could take an older camera, set a UVB reptile bulb or germacidal bulb over the lens mount. Keep it in a closet for a month or so, check on it to avoid causing fires. Then test it out.

Would be slow,but if your not using that camera much anyway,  you could play the waiting game to see how it works.

 

I don't know if this would burn the shutter or make other internal camera components brittle and weak. Its possible it might cause damage for the duration needed to bleach out the dyes.

[Dmitry]

The sensor module can be removed from the camera, covered with foil or tape over anything that needs to be protected, and placed in the UV lamp box.