colinbm Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 What filter combinations give the best EIR / Aero photos, but particularly looking at the best / greatest differences in the vegetation's. Cheers Col Link to comment
Andy Perrin Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I personally think the IRG is best (after using image subtraction on the channels, which can be done in Photoshop). That is with Tiffen #12. I also add a DB850 filter from MidOpt sometimes because it removes the contamination from the 700-800nm range stacked with the Tiffen #12. Link to comment
colinbm Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 I personally think the IRG is best (after using image subtraction on the channels, which can be done in Photoshop). That is with Tiffen #12. I also add a DB850 filter from MidOpt sometimes because it removes the contamination from the 700-800nm range stacked with the Tiffen #12.Oh, that is a strange combination......blocking 700-800nm....why do you call it contamination ?I have found that 700-800nm is where chloroform is starting to reflect the IR ?Col Link to comment
Andy Perrin Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 So, the idea of getting an IRG image in one shot is that you start off with pure IR in the blue channel, but red and green channels have a mix of IR and actual red and green. The problem is that the 700-800nm band goes in red and green channels unequally, so it messes up the subtraction. With TIffen #12 alone:original red channel = red light + IR light (800+) + some IR light (700-800)original green channel = green light + IR light (800+) + some other IR light (700-800)original blue channel = IR light (800+) With Tiffen #12 + DB850:original red channel = red light + IR light (800+)original green channel = green light + IR light (800+)original blue channel = IR light (800+) So the subtraction works perfectly with the Tiffen #12 + DB850, but not with Tiffen #12 alone. Link to comment
dabateman Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 What filter combinations give the best EIR / Aero photos, but particularly looking at the best / greatest differences in the vegetation's.CheersCol I would say trick question. Like asking which is the most beautiful person. We all have our different preferences and mood will even change that. I have grown to like more red, but used to only like the golden look.So Lee 183 with GBR3 filter was my orangey favorite a year ago. Now I would like the Lee 729 with KG3 the best. The Lee 729 with GBR3 is more magenta.The Kolari IRchrome seems to be too orange now. Just play around, seems to be many different cheap options. Also since they are cheap, not very consistent. Like GBR3 doesn't equal KG3, but is close. Link to comment
GaryR Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Hi Colin,I've had decent results, using a #12Y + XNite CC2 stack. The KG3 or Kopp 7093 will provide a better IR cutoff (around 850nm), but if you already have a CC2, or weak hot mirror filter, it may be worth a try. The IR Chrome or Lee729/KG3 filters, will give you an instant aerochrome look, but you won't get red to yellow/green color shifts, or subtle variations of red/magenta foliage. I still experiment with my IR Chrome filter, but don't expect true aerochrome colors. I still like the SOOC results that you get from the Sigma foveon sensor, but the only way I've found to get a complete aerochrome look, is with a Y/IR cutoff stack and processing. KODAK AEROCHROME III Infrared Film - Spectral Sensitivity"... sensitive to ultraviolet, visible, and infrared radiation to approximately 900 nm." https://www.kodak.com/uploadedFiles/Corporate/Industrial_Materials_Group/ti2562.pdf Link to comment
OlDoinyo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Do you want authentic IRG, or do you merely want red vegetation? If merely the latter, there are numerous ways to get there, including some that do not even require actual IR (see https://www.flickr.com/photos/ol_doinyo/8973905391.) Some of the easiest ways to achieve red leaves are probably those using a red-blocking filter to ensure that the red channel records infrared rather than red. Using a Foveon sensor without a filter will also give you a version of this. These latter two methods require only tweaking to produce the final product (no fancy math or channel swapping.) If you are after real IRG, the gold standard is the two-image method: separate infrared and visible images with the appropriate channel paste-ins. However, this method may be inconvenient for many types of subject matter. Thus, singe-image methods have been developed which are much more convenient and accurate enough for artistic purposes (if not for scientific use.) Of these, if you are specifically trying to emulate Aerochrome film, Nick Spiker's approach is the most faithful; you can find documentation on his website, although the concept is involved. For more general (non-emulative) single-exposure IRG, a simpler approach using a Pixelbender plugin or equivalent can handle the necessary image processing steps. Key to the last two methods is the use of a sharp-cutoff (blue-blocking) yellow filter such as Tiffen 12 or 525LP dichroic. Link to comment
Cadmium Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 "The KG3 or Kopp 7093 will provide a better IR cutoff (around 850nm), but if you already have a CC2, or weak hot mirror filter, it may be worth a try." KG3 and Kopp 7093 should be the same at the same thickness. Use 2mm, thickness is essential.CC2 is KG1, it will not work like KG3, unless double stacked (4mm) and even then it is not exactly the same. KG1 4mm should work about the same as KG3 2mm, but KG3 2mm would be best.CC1 = Schott BG38 (used primarily for visual photos with a full spectrum converted camera). Again, thickness is essential. Link to comment
GaryR Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Steve, Yes, the KG3 is a far better choice. Hope to acquire one someday. Clark, I use the Nick Spiker profile on my a7R, but I still like the foveon reds from various Sigmas that I've owned. Link to comment
colinbm Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Thanks for the input everybody....Yes I am interested in seeing what gives the best separation of the reds in the vegetation, over the 'pop' of the reds.I will try these with a Bayer & Sigma Foveon cameras.I am a bit reluctant to go the software way....consider me dumb, but with a bit of basic processing.....CheersCol Link to comment
dabateman Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Thanks for the input everybody....Yes I am interested in seeing what gives the best separation of the reds in the vegetation, over the 'pop' of the reds.I will try these with a Bayer & Sigma Foveon cameras.I am a bit reluctant to go the software way....consider me dumb, but with a bit of basic processing.....CheersCol Colin the Sigma camera is a totally different beast. For that try a X1 filter or green if you have one.Gary posted about it here: https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php/topic/2747-sigma-sd-quattro-false-color/page__p__21026__hl__foveon__fromsearch__1#entry21026 and so did Jonathan with his Sd14:https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php/topic/3146-kolarivision-ir-chrome-aerochrome-filter/page__view__findpost__p__25898 Link to comment
colinbm Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Thanks DaveYes I have mucked around with my Sigma cameras before....SD15, Dp1 & 2 without hot mirrors, now to try with the SDQ....& a full spectrum Bayer camera...Col Link to comment
Cadmium Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Andy's original Tiffen #12 + DB850 topic:https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php/topic/3337-irg-with-one-shot-using-a-db850-tiffen12/page__hl__850__fromsearch__1 Link to comment
colinbm Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Excellent, thanks Steve Link to comment
Andy Perrin Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 The last post in the link Cadmium posted explains how to do the processing in Photoshop Link to comment
Timber Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 well if you are on a very tight budget and want to have the EIR SOOC, like me, then Hoya 80C + Lee 729 Scuba Blue Gel :) Link to comment
Cadmium Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 We don't know what 80C does above 750nm, and that is the range we are using KG3 for with the 729 stack.Looking at the 80C graph, one could imagine that the transmission flattens out above 750nm, and that is not what we are wanting it for, we want to drastically slope the IR transmission down above 780nm/800nm.Unless someone has a graph of 80C above 750nm, or perhaps a direct comparison (all things being equal) between a 729 + KG3 2mm stack and the 729 + 80C stack, then...who knows. Link to comment
colinbm Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 While looking for stuff, I found this....https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/24665459/filters-for-forensic-photography Link to comment
Andy Perrin Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 That seems interesting but I kind of wonder if it’s true? Certainly the Schott filters are not gelatin. I suppose Kodak might be different. Link to comment
Cadmium Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Col, I am not sure what you are pointing out in that link.Andy, what part are you wondering about? Link to comment
colinbm Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 Steve, it is a pdf doc about 'Filters for Forensic Photography'.Does it open for you ?Col Link to comment
Cadmium Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Col, Yes, it opens, I read it. I was wondering what part of it you are connecting with this topic, what were you pointing out with it? Link to comment
colinbm Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 Yes, I was looking for Hoya 80C charts.... Link to comment
Cadmium Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 So does something in that link pertain to this topic? Link to comment
dabateman Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Yes, I was looking for Hoya 80C charts.... Colin although the 80C filter is mentioned on page 11. Its spectrum is not provided anywhere in the document. So doesn't really help. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now