CYYM color filter array?

[Fandyus]

So I have researched some alternative color arrays that were used throughout time, and I found out that Kodak apparently made two DSLRs with a CYYM color array. Kodak DCS 620x and 720x. Does anyone know anything about these cameras? I looked at eBay and couldn't even find one, I wonder if they're affordable and if one could convert them to full spectrum. They're like 3mp but would be fun to play with regardless.

[Andrea B.]

That link contains a review of the Kodak DCS 620.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakdcs620

 

 

Current sale:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314346707113

This camera is priced rather high for such an old camera. Perhaps it is considered collectible?

[Fandyus]

@Andrea B.

That's a shame, given its interchangable mount and a sensor that uses alternative colors, it could have been great for UV. If it shoots RAW that is. Although that tiny resolution would be a problem.

[Andrea B.]

Keep your eyes open for a 620 or 720. Prices of old gear typically fluctuate over time. Also check out KEH.com. I don't think they currently have any Kodaks available, but  who knows when a 620/720 might pop up there.

 

[dabateman]

13 hours ago, Fandyus said:

@Andrea B.

That's a shame, given its interchangable mount and a sensor that uses alternative colors, it could have been great for UV. If it shoots RAW that is. Although that tiny resolution would be a problem.

The mount is Nikon F-mount,  so lenses would be limited. I don't have a Rayfact,  and my UAT is M42 mount. 

The yellow dye kind of acts like the Red dye from RGB sensor in UV. So the colours would be interesting.  Also the Magenta dye is very strong into UV, the most dominant channel.  Magenta allow greater intensity and deeper into UV than the blue channel from a RGB sensor. The cyan channel is similar to the green channel from RGB sensor in UV. So the UV signal would be better than a RGB sensor,  but with a very weird,  magenta dominant color.

[dabateman]

Actually this quote from the 720x product release is interesting: 

 

"Plus, photographers can customize the DCS 720x with an IR blocking filter, removable anti-aliasing filter, IPTC captioning, white balance uploading, and a wide choice of storage options. Direct e-mail image transmission over web-enabled cellular phones will become available as an upgrade later this year."

 

full spectrum models might exist in the wild.

[Adrian]

I have a large collection of early Kodak cameras, including a DCS 100 (these were available in monochrome or colour versions), and several DCS620 and 720 cameras (Mainly Nikon but one Canon body). I have an IR body aimed at the forensic market.

 

I have several CDs with images from the Kodak cameras including CMY sensors. When I spoke to a technical guy at Kodak about them at the time, he said that CMY sensors could not achieve the same depth of colour as RGB sensors. 

 

 I am away from home at the moment so cannot check, but will reply more fully when I get back.

I have lots of leaflets and pamphlets as well.

[Adrian]

Many apologies for not expanding sooner on my rather rushed answer to this question. I hope I will not be straying too far off topic!

 

First, a brief history lesson: Kodak produced the “first commercially available digital camera” the DCS 100 around 1990. It was available in colour or monochrome versions (I never did test it for UV or IR sensitivity). It came in a huge flight case, with camera body, which was linked directly to a heavy Winchester hard disc, which was contained in a back pack, designed to be worn! There was a keyboard and modem. It was intended primarily for press photographers. The cost was around 10,000 UKP!

 

There was no room in the box even for a lens! I have one of these, though haven’t fired it up for many years. 

 

Following that, Kodak produced a range of digital cameras usually built around Nikon F3 and F5 bodies (a couple of Canon versions too). There included the DCS 200 (the first “self-contained” camera) 620 and 720.

I have a DCS 720X which is labelled as being  an infrared model custom made specifically for forensic photographers. Sadly I have never gotten around to testing it for IR. The pixel count was, I think, 4Mp.

 

They reached their “peak” with the DCS Pro14N, a 14Mp camera giving outstanding results.

 

As to sensors, most of the cameras used RGB Bayer pattern sensors. Some research was carried out using CMY filters (not sure about the CYYM). Theoretically these would be significantly more sensitive that RGB (RGB dyes absorb 2/3 of the light falling on them, transmitting  1/3. CMY dyes transmit 2/3). I have never used a CMY sensor though do have some images somewhere on a Kodak demo CD. I was told years ago by a Kodak technician in Rochester that they could never achieve good enough colour fidelity with the CMY sensors. 

 

All of these cameras, apart from the 14N, were SCSI devices, so finding computers, cables etc to retrieve the images is now very difficult. I have the cables and memory card readers, but no computer with SCSI (Oh the days of setting up SCSI chains!).

 

I am lucky enough to have around 12 of these cameras,  and will soon have to decide what to do with them. Hopefully a museum will want the collection. I also have lots of literature, early pamphlets etc, as well as various CD ROMs with demo images. I will look these out over the next few days to see if there is any more information on the CMY sensors. 

[dabateman]

@Adrian,

I don't see any text or images.

Edit:

Only using the default Theme can I read your text. Using UVP dark Theme,  its all black.

 

I do hope you can test out these cameras. Would be interesting to see some IR with the 720x.

I had a Dslr/n, the last in the Kodak line. But I never really warmed up to it.  I sold it, never doing the photo I bought it for. A ISO 6 image of the Vietnam War memorial in DC, during day time.

I wanted the slight blur of people as a ghost.

 

[Adrian]

Not sure why you had difficulty reading my text. I wrote it in Word and pasted it into the UVP page. I didn't post any images

[ulf]

56 minutes ago, Adrian said:

Not sure why you had difficulty reading my text. I wrote it in Word and pasted it into the UVP page. I didn't post any images

I think that texts from Word contain some hidden formatting strings that cause problems with different Themes.

I get the same problem when doing copy paste from text in topics too if I do not select paste as plain text.

 

[JMC]

Adrian, for me, your post showed up as black text on a black background. I can only see the text if I running the mouse over it and highlight everything. I am using the dark theme, so a black background with white writing on it.

[lukaszgryglicki]

When pasting from an external source you can do "paste without formatting" instead of "paste" - I won't provide exact keyboard shortcuts because this is OS and/or browser dependent.

 

[Adrian]

I am re-posting my reply using "Paste and Match Style Option". Hopefully this will work!

 

 

Many apologies for not expanding sooner on my rather rushed answer to this question. I hope I will not be straying too far off topic!

First, a brief history lesson: Kodak produced the “first commercially digital camera” the DCS 100 around 1990. It was available in colour or monochrome versions (I never did test it for UV or IR sensitivity). It came in a huge flight case, with camera body, which was linked directly to a heavy Winchester hard disc, which was contained in a back pack, designed to be worn! There was a keyboard and modem. It was intended primarily for press photographers. The cost was around 10K UKP!

There was no room in the box even for a lens! I have one of these, though haven’t fired it up for many years. 

Following that, Kodak produced a range of digital cameras usually built around Nikon F3 and F5 bodies (a couple of Canon versions too). There included the DCS 200 (the first “self-contained” camera) 620 and 720.
I have a DCS 720X which I was told was an infrared model custom made specifically for forensic photographers. Sadly I have never gotten around to testing it for IR. The pixel count was, I think, 4Mp.

They reached their “peak” with the DCS Pro14N, a 14Mp camera giving outstanding results.

As to sensors, most of the cameras used RGB Bayer pattern sensors. Some research was carried out using CMY filters. Theoretically these would be significantly more sensitive that RGB (RGB dyes absorb 2/3 of the light falling on them, transmitting  1/3. CMY dyes transmit 2/3). I have never used a CMY sensor though do have some images somewhere on a Kodak demo CD. I was told years ago by a Kodak technician in Rochester that they could never achieve good enough colour fidelity with the CMY sensors. 

All of these cameras, apart from the 14N, were SCSI devices, so finding computers, cables etc to retrieve the images is now very difficult. I have the cables and memory card readers, but no computer with SCSI (Oh the days of setting up SCSI chains!).

I am lucky enough to have around 12 of these cameras,  and will soon have to decide what to do with them. Hopefully a museum will want the collection. I also have lots of literature, early pamphlets etc, as well as various CD ROMs with demo images. I will look these out over the next few days to see if there is any more information on the CMY sensors. 
 

[photoni]

1 hour ago, Adrian said:

DCS Pro14N, a 14Mp

I rented this FF machine for a job, outdoors if I remember correctly it used 1 Gb cards.
Two years earlier ± 1997 I bought a Dicomed x Hasselblad back, the connection was with a big SCSI-3 cable

.
If any museum wants a MAC that still works fine with both OS-X and OS9

dedicated cards and SCSI-3 and 2 cables

+ Syquest 44 and 200 reader and cartridges + Jazz reader and cartridges + Zip reader and cartridges... contact me .

.
With all that money it might have been better if I bought a house in Milan, I was a madman who wanted to get ahead of the times, but few agencies knew how to use that technology and the printers boycotted me.