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Mac Repair Complete: Question about Big Sur

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#1 Andrea B.

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 17:52

I've been setting up my new Macbook Pro this morning after its return from screen replacement.
And I have a question for Macbook users.

My current OSX is Catalina 10.15.7. Do you who are Macbook users think that Big Sur is stable enough to go ahead with that OS upgrade?

Thanks for any feedback on Big Sur.
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#2 UlfW

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 10:12

Catalina is the first MacOS that do not support any 32-bit code at all.
I have stopped at Mojave for my MacPro 2013, in fear of losing too many really needed programs.

Apple loves to keep you in that hamster wheel keeping upgrading hard- and software.
They would prefer if you get new hardware every year and seams to think that the only important software comes from them. :angry:
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#3 dabateman

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 12:25

I am now reading this with interest, as I now really hate Microsoft with the continuous Windows 10 updates that seem to slow everything down or kill hardware.
So I have been thinking my next computer should be a Mac with M1 or M2 silicone.

Does Apple push, force updates all the time? Can you say no and lock your computer at a specific OS version, never update but still stay connected to the internet?

I have a Win10 laptop with expensive dedicated software off network, never to be connected again as I can't have Microsoft kill it. Its a specific computer controlled by eye movement.

#4 nfoto

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 12:38

Off topic, but relevant to Dave' rant. I returned my main workstation to Win7 as Win10 had critical flaws (on that computer) I never was able to get rid off. Fortunately for me I had made a disk image of the Win7 machine before the upgrade so the fix was just to swap system disks.

My other Win10 boxes run fine -- by and large. Once in a blue moon I allow them to download updates but never all at the same time. Just in case.

My Linux machines belong to another leaugue of robustness and stability. Had I been able to make all my required software run on Linux then there should be no need for anything dfiferent, alas that is not the scenario right now. Photo Ninja does run well, though.

I do hope Andrea gets her machine up and working as otherwise our planned Zoom session(s) will be moot.

#5 UlfW

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 12:51

View Postdabateman, on 22 April 2021 - 12:25, said:

I am now reading this with interest, as I now really hate Microsoft with the continuous Windows 10 updates that seem to slow everything down or kill hardware.
So I have been thinking my next computer should be a Mac with M1 or M2 silicone.

Does Apple push, force updates all the time? Can you say no and lock your computer at a specific OS version, never update but still stay connected to the internet?
You can set the update settings to avoid updates completely or just avoid next OS generation and still get the security updates, but they continue to send notices nagging about having you update the OS-version.
I had Mojave and accidentally got updated to Catalina. Then I realised that there were no 32-bit support I had to back down. That means reformat and reinstall all. There is no easy way to go backwards.
Their hardware is only compatible with the OS existing when the hardware is released, except via virtual machines.

There is a problem with the difference between computer and OS evolution speed and some hardware, that should be useable much longer, but stop working due to that there is no OS support anymore.

Edited by UlfW, 22 April 2021 - 12:52.

Ulf Wilhelmson
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#6 GaryR

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 14:56

Andrea,
If you're familiar with imaging/cloning software, you could copy your current system, then do the upgrade. If it doesn't work out, you could return to the previous version. I often create images of my entire Windows10 system with installed software, so that I can try out new software and make changes without fear of destroying my system. I can restore my entire system, to my saved version, in a few minutes, so no risk whatsoever.
,
I'm not familiar with Mac imaging software, but Carbon Copy Cloner comes to mind. You'd have to take the time to learn how to use it, but you'd have the peace of mind of saving you current OS setup, if you need to restore it.

#7 SteveE

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 15:43

View PostGaryR, on 22 April 2021 - 14:56, said:

I often create images of my entire Windows10 system
If I may ask, what do you use to create and restore your W10 cloned images?
- Steve

#8 GaryR

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 16:34

Steve,
I use Terabyte for Linux (GIU), which boots directly from a USB drive. I like that it's not installed on Windows, and boots into it's own Linux environment. After it loads, you can choose to backup your entire Windows10 C: drive as a saved image on a separate drive, or select an image to restore. Acronis can also be installed to boot from a USB drive, and works much the same way as Terabyte. I have both, but currently prefer TB.

#9 Andrea B.

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 19:51

David: Does Apple push, force updates all the time?

No, not really. But eventually some apps will no longer run on an old OS. It is that way with both Windows and Apple. So it really doesn't matter which one you choose (opinion). I've had both over the years and really have never seen a difference when running my own favorite apps.

I will say something about Windows vs Apple updates but *please* do not take it as Andrea "taking-a-side": The updates on Macs are painless and easily (to me) refused if you so desire. The updates on Windows are a royal pain in the patoot. Those statements are just an opinion, OK? YMMV !!! But painful Windows updates never stopped me from enjoying my Windows laptops when I had them. One just deals, right?? :lol:

Since running Macbooks, I should also note that I usually delay OSX name upgrades until the bugs have been shaken out. But I don't delay intermediate security updates or bug fixes. As an example, on New Macbook, I am waiting a bit longer before moving from Catalina to Big Sur.

To answer David's second question: Yes, you can say No to Apple updates. You simply set the System Preferences a certain way.



What I think does make a difference on machines is how much memory (RAM) you put on it (opinion). I also think that flash memory (i.e., Solid State Drives) for storage is the way to go now (opinion) No more hard drive failures! I've been very very happy with the flash mem on this Old Macbook. It is still a bit expensive, but I decided to also make the switch for all my backup drives. I do find flash mem to be much faster.


I was in the previous paragraph referring to my old 9-year-old Macbook Pro Retina from 2012. Old Mac is still running Mountain Lion OSX 10.8.5 because I wanted to continue to use Capture NX2. But, yes, I have stayed connected to the internet quite successfully. :grin:



I got a new Macbook Pro Retina because I need to be able to run some apps that no longer run under Mountain Lion (my email app and Affinity are just two examples). Also I have had a slight fear for about a year and a half now that the graphics card is going on Old Mac. And the thumb pad thing has gotten sticky and due up for replacement. ((Yeah, I could fix that stuff.))

9 years from a laptop is pretty darned good, methinks!! And I will continue to use it.



GaryR: If you're familiar with imaging/cloning software........

Yessir! And I have been using Carbon Copy. It is totally easy to use. I don't have it set up to run automatically though. I used to backup and clone every Sunday evening. Since moving, I have gotten out of the habit. Not good. :wacko:



I have never set up and run a Linux machine at home. That's bad on me because -- geez -- I worked at ATT Bell Labs all those years. That is where Unix got its start. That's what I "grew up on". We were all-Unix-all-the-time in whatever form it appeared on a workstation or pc - including Linux as time went on.

One small reason I have enjoyed Macbooks so much is that OSX is Unix of some type or other. That makes it easy to go to Terminal and write useful shell scripts in Ksh or Bsh or whatever. Unforch, OS X itself is not open source. Probably just as well. :devil:
Andrea G. Blum
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#10 dabateman

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 20:28

Thank you Andrea.
Windows 10, at least for me hasn't allowed me to pause for more than 7 days. I tried to delay one system for over a month, but it was still downloading updates in the background.
One of our laptops was at full 100% cpu usage due to background update downloading. A real pain. Forcing it to do all the updates helped a little, but still runs and is checking.

I might just switch over to Linux or mac. This has been a pain compounded with work systems running live over the internet and full online school.

#11 UlfW

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 11:07

View PostAndrea B., on 23 April 2021 - 19:51, said:


What I think does make a difference on machines is how much memory (RAM) you put on it (opinion). I also think that flash memory for storage is the way to go now (opinion) No more hard drive failures!


IYessir! And I have been using Carbon Copy. It is totally easy to use. I don't have it set up to run automatically though. I used to backup and clone every Sunday evening. Since moving, I have gotten out of the habit. Not good. :wacko:


One small reason I have enjoyed Macbooks so much is that OSX is Unix of some type or other. That makes it easy to go to Terminal and write useful shell scripts in Ksh or Bsh or whatever. Unforch, OS X itself is not open source. Probably just as well. :devil:
More memory is better, especially if you are running several virtual machines beside the host OS.

Flash drives or SSDs can also fail.
I have had many different types in my computers for the last twelve years and so far I have lost four of them, but they are much more reliable than mechanical drives.

I use SuperDuper that is working in a similar way as Carbon Copy.
It is always nice to have a reasonably fresh image to boot from quickly if the main drive fails.

MacOS also have a very nice backup system built in that works very well, the Time Machine.
On my main computer I have two external 8TB USB 3 drives dedicated for that.
It is very nice to be able to go back and reverse a delete you did some days ago and bring that file back.
Ulf Wilhelmson
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#12 Andy Perrin

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 16:13

SSDs are so much faster than mechanical hard drives that I will never go back at this point. Since writing and reading from the disk is often the bottleneck, it makes a difference to overall system performance.

I use Time Machine also for my backups.

Edited by Andy Perrin, 24 April 2021 - 16:14.


#13 Andrea B.

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 16:59

Flash drives or SSDs can also fail.

I'm curious, Ulf, if you were able to learn the mode of failure for those which failed? It would be interesting to know.


I'm also using TIme Machine. Seems to have worked well.


The only drawback of Macbook laptops is that they are very much TOO expensive.


Andrea G. Blum
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#14 UlfW

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 10:22

View PostAndrea B., on 24 April 2021 - 16:59, said:

Flash drives or SSDs can also fail.

I'm curious, Ulf, if you were able to learn the mode of failure for those which failed? It would be interesting to know.


I'm also using TIme Machine. Seems to have worked well.


The only drawback of Macbook laptops is that they are very much TOO expensive.


No, they just stopped existing in the data world.
Sometimes you might get an early warning of beginning corruption via monitoring systems, or at least that was possible with mechanical drives.

Macs in general are expensive, but if compared with hardware in the same feature and quality segment by other brands it is not always the Macs that are the most expensive ones.
Some Sony and Dell model-lines are also expensive.

I have not needed the mobility of a laptop and found used not old Mac Pros instead, that I have stuffed full of memory and upgraded in different ways.
Ulf Wilhelmson
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#15 Alaun

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 21:28

SuperDuper has problems with BigSur due to the new boot, partion and file system.
Werner

#16 UlfW

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 03:34

View PostAlaun, on 25 April 2021 - 21:28, said:

SuperDuper has problems with BigSur due to the new boot, partiton and file system.
Good to know when I go to that version. (unlikely soon)
The developer has always been good at issuing updates. I hope he is able to do that now too.
Ulf Wilhelmson
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