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Culture Hustle Black 2.0 paint as a fluorescence background

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#1 JMC

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 18:33

I've been using the Culture Hustle, Semple Black 2.0 paint for a number of my builds, when I need a low reflectance surface, as it is very absorbent of light from UV through to IR. And is cheap, £12 for a pot which covers about 1-2 square meters. Someone asked me ages ago whether it fluoresced, and I didn't have an answer to that. Well I recently painted some cardboard with it, as I wanted to use it as a backdrop for something, so I thought I would test it.

Firstly a couple of cross polarised visible light images - the back of the cardboard and black painted side (cross polarised visible camera was all I had to hand).
Attached Image: CP back face IMG_6035a.jpg

Attached Image: CP Black IMG_6033a.jpg

And now the UV fluorescence images (ACS UV flash - EOS 600RT, 40mm pancake lens, and EOS 5DSR, no additional filtration on the lens, same flash settings for both).

The non painted side.
Attached Image: Fluorescence back 578A5661a.jpg

The painted side.
Attached Image: Fluorescence Black 578A5658a.jpg

Oh and a closeup of the torn edge of the cardboard- something in there is fluorescing strongly, I presume the adhesive or binder.
Attached Image: Fluorescence back 578A5661 closeup.jpg

So it looks like the Semple Black 2.0 from Culture Hustle is pretty good as a fluoresence backdrop.

Finally some fluorescence images of the back of my hand, because, why not. Full size;
Attached Image: Back of hand 578A5656.jpg

And closeups, showing sub clinical dryness where the skin tends to flex a lot (the lighter cracks are dry skin which strongly fluoresces in UV).
Attached Image: Close up back of hand 578A5656.jpg

Attached Image: Close up back of hand II 578A5656.jpg

Finally an odd area on my forearm - not sure what to make of this as there is nothing in visible light at all. I shall check again tomorrow to see if it isn't something on the skin that I have picked up during the day.
Attached Image: Strange forearm area 578A5654.jpg

#2 Cadmium

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 00:29

Thanks Jonathan. :-)
Have you ever tried Krylon Ultra Flat Black Spray Paint #1602 (Mfr #: PA112) ?
https://www.filmtool...pray-paint.html

#3 JMC

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 08:44

No, I haven't Steve. When I was looking for something black which would also be good for UV, I started with UK suppliers. Someone I worked with recommended I check out the Semple Black 2.0, and given how well it absorbed UV (and everything else) I didn't need to look any further.

#4 Shane

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 17:40

Quote

Have you ever tried Krylon Ultra Flat Black Spray Paint #1602 (Mfr #: PA112) ?
https://www.filmtool...pray-paint.html

I used to get this for UV and fluorescence photography as far back as 1995 when I spectrally characterized as many black paints as I could find.
In the good old days you could buy it at Walmart for a few dollars a can. Then Krylon classified it as Industrial Paint (maybe environmental issues) and it became hard to get except from Filmtool.

Good to know there appears to be another cheap alternative.

#5 dabateman

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 17:59

Jonathan,
Did that localized hot spot on your arm clear? It almost looks like a local fat deposit.
When I scanned my youngest son a couple of months ago with a low power 405nm flashlight, I saw a small circle of fatty tissue, that resembles that on his hand. It cleared after 3 days.

#6 JMC

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 18:44

David, I've been really busy today and forgot. Will check tomorrow though. Thanks for reminding me.

#7 UlfW

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 19:21

View PostShane, on 03 October 2018 - 17:40, said:


Good to know there appears to be another cheap alternative.

The Semple Black 2.0 paint is an acrylic water-dilutable paint that also can be applied with airbrush-spraying.
Normally I think it is applied with a brush.
It is according to the specs nontoxic.
The only thing i dislike is that it is slightly scented. It is not a strong scent, but still present when the paint is dry.
Ulf Wilhelmson
Curious and trying to see the invisible.

#8 Cadmium

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 23:04

View PostShane, on 03 October 2018 - 17:40, said:

I used to get this for UV and fluorescence photography as far back as 1995 when I spectrally characterized as many black paints as I could find.
In the good old days you could buy it at Walmart for a few dollars a can. Then Krylon classified it as Industrial Paint (maybe environmental issues) and it became hard to get except from Filmtool.

Good to know there appears to be another cheap alternative.

Shane, I learned about it form you years ago, got some a few years back, and it works great. Thanks.
I wasn't even able to find it mentioned on Krylon's site now, but still being sold.

Edited by Cadmium, 03 October 2018 - 23:04.


#9 JMC

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 15:12

View PostJMC, on 03 October 2018 - 18:44, said:

David, I've been really busy today and forgot. Will check tomorrow though. Thanks for reminding me.
It was still there the next day, but smaller in size. A picture of the full forearm and a closeup of the region, from the same image file.
Attached Image: 578A5670 small.jpg

Attached Image: 578A5670 cropped.jpg

It does look to be emphasized on the lines of the dermatoglyphics, which would suggest to me it is dryness related - the way dry skin fluoresces strongly, and is present along the dermatoglyphics lines seems to be too big a coincidence. There was nothing visible on the skin through normal observation though.

Edited by JMC, 05 October 2018 - 15:14.


#10 dabateman

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 02:29

Yes that looks much better now. Nothing clearly glob like and not really looking like under the skin.
My son gets near perfect circles of what look like fat deposits under the skin.

#11 Cadmium

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 09:23

Hmm, Could be a fungus, or... did you ever see that movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers?!
Maybe you should ask that Skin Doctor guy on here...

#12 JMC

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 09:57

Steve, I was watching The Thing, the other night. Perhaps I am no longer me.... In all seriousness though, I shall keep an eye on it. I have seen when measuring skin hydration in the past, that some areas which look normal are drier than the surroundings. This would tie in with that observation. As to why it is drier, that is another question.

Edited by JMC, 06 October 2018 - 09:59.


#13 Shane

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 14:10

Quote

I wasn't even able to find it mentioned on Krylon's site now, but still being sold.

Last time I checked a few years back, it was listed in their Industrial Paint Division

#14 Cadmium

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 22:04

Shane, yes, here it is, listed with a slightly longer part #:
K01602A07 Ultra-Flat Black 12 oz. 075577000609

https://www.krylonin...crylic-lacquer/

Edited by Cadmium, 06 October 2018 - 22:06.


#15 Shane

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 22:21

Does that look identical to the one you purchased from Film Tools? and have you tested it to see if it still performs well in the UV and IR......not sure if the formulation was changed. I still have the older can style (somewhere).

#16 Cadmium

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 00:09

Shane, The photo on Film Tools is different than the photo on Krylon Industrial. The label and the longer part # on my can is like the one at Krylon Industrial, not like the one at Film Tools, but I did get my can from Film Tools, I even still have the receipt taped to the can to remember where to get more. I got mine in May of 2017.
I have not sprayed any lately, but the cardboard I painted with it still works fine.
I wasn't able to find any reference to the "MPN PA112" shown on Film Tools page.

Edited by Cadmium, 07 October 2018 - 00:11.