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UltravioletPhotography

Newbee on uv and many questions:


msubees

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I got a UV transmitting lens (Enna Munchen) many years ago..did some UV and then never followed up. Now I am teaching a macrophotography class so I am picking it up again.

 

I am an entomologist but I focus mostly on honey bees. my lab page: http://bees.msu.edu. Currently my research is focusing on how stresses (parasites, pathogens, transportation, pesticides) affect honey bee physiology and behavior. I have been studying how Nosema ceranae (a fungal pathogen) affect honey bees and the reproductive biology of Varroa destructor (an arachnid external parasite that sucks blood from bees) for a few years.

 

Most of my photos are on honey bees: (http://cyberbee.net/gallery)

 

I only did a few flowers under UV: http://ww3.beetograp...om/index.php/UV).

 

I am debating whether to simply buy a D40 unmodified ([1]is it as good as D70? I gave my own D70 away but tested one yesterday and got good exposure at F8, 6-10 sec. this is using KDS's X135 (the lens says Enna Munchen Teleanalyt, 1:2.8/135MM).

 

The alternative is to buy a Nikon D3100 and modified it for full spectrum. My question is whether I gain a few EV or not by removing the horror mirror compared to a non modified D70. I assume there will be differences? However I looked at the exif of many shots on the web (some on your site here) and most have 2-10 seconds anyway! So I am puzzled.

 

So essentially the question [2] is how many stops of EV of a modified D3100 will be gained compared to unmodified D70.

 

The 3rd question is if I buy the Nikkor-UV (someone is offering it for $1900 now, this seems to be a good price?), how does it compare to Enna Munchen Teleanalyt, 1:2.8/135MM in terms of EV gain?

 

Right now, I shoot a regular photo, then close the Baader filter and get a UV (shifting EV 8-10 steps toward more light). With a full spectrum camera, I would need another filter to block IR and UV to take the normal shot? Therefore I am hesitating because I do not want to find out that, after mod ($275) and then filter, the EV gain is only a few (say <5) and it will still not be hand-holdable.

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Prof. Bjørn Rørslett already emailed me below:

 

the problem one faces is that there nearly always is a need for stopping down the lens in order to gain depth of field (and for the lesser UV capable lenses, to get adequate sharpness as such lenses tend to be quite soft at their larger apertures).

 

The EV difference hence is not really the decisive parameter when one compares lenses for UV. The non-dedicated lenses are typically from -1 to

-3 EV in sensitivity compared to the dedicated UV lenses such as the UV-Nikkor. A modern broad-spectrum camera can be +1 to +2 or even +3 EV more responding to UV than an unmodified D70. Still, given the low absolute levels of UV incident to the natural subjects and the need for using lower ISO (to improve image quality), most UV photography is not done with hand-held cameras. That is, *unless* a UV-capable flash is used which is my normal approach.

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I probably wont have the budget to do both (buying the $1900 Nikkor-UV lens) and then buy another D3100 and modify it ($200+$275).

 

I should have read this site before I bought my D40X, which has no UV sensitivty at all. I tried yesterday with D600, D700, D800, D3100, none of them register any UV with the lens.

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The D40X is superb for UV *provided* the internal filter pack is removed. I used the D40x as my main UV camera for years.
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Thanks, Dr. Rørslett.

 

I also read somewhere you said you then migrated to D3200 as your main camera, I am assuming because of liveview? Right now I have the option of returning the D40X and get a used D3100 for the same price (~$210). Modification will be the same price. I am a bit intimidated with finding more filters if my camera is modified to full spectrum.

 

The D40X is superb for UV *provided* the internal filter pack is removed. I used the D40x as my main UV camera for years.

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I still have the D40X (as a broad-band device).

 

The D3xxx series have more pixels and of course LiveView, a feature which at times come in handy. The D40X used earlier had the UV bandpass filter internally so the finder worked normally and with the UV-Nikkor 105 or Coastal Optics 60 APO lenses, no focus shift occurred thus LiveView wasn't essential. The D3200 now inherited the internal filter from the D40X so basically operates in the same manner, but does have LiveView should this be required.

 

Like Andrea, I also have a D600 modified as broad-band camera and for this I have to rely on LiveView all the time. I added a Zacuto finder loupe to make LV easier to observe. With my UV-modified Panasonics (GH-2) either an electronic viewfinder (EVF) or LiveView is used.

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Welcome Zach,

 

So, Dr. Schmitt's X135 was an Enna Tele-Ennalyt 135mm f/2.8, presumably calibrated for focal shift?

 

He has recently unveiled an Apochromatic Quartz Fluorite 80mm f/3.2 recently discussed on this forum.

http://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/index.php?/topic/731-x80qf-80mm-f32-lens-for-uvir-in-limited-edition-from-dr-klaus-schmitt/page__fromsearch__1

 

However from my reading it is optimized for DX and smaller sensors such as APS-C & µ4/3. Considered going mirrorless?

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Dowdy,

yes, he added a Baader filter, a filter holder, a M42 to nikon adaptor, and marked a UV focus shift.

Klaus, I do not remember if you would rather keep the name of this X135 a secret or not (i simply do not remember since this was so long ago). if so, please let me know and I can delete the ID of the lens.

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Klaus is not a member on the UVP site. What would be gained by hiding the true identity of a lens?
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-- so there is a visible-light block filter ontop of the CCD? I thought then this will become a dedicated UV camera, not full spectrum?

 

i can also pay for the same price to modify it to UV only, but then I lose the ability to compose the same photo with visible light (who knows, maybe one day I would like to blend two to simulate what bees see), i assume since the filter that blocks visible light is internal.

 

 

"The D40X used earlier had the UV bandpass filter internally"

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anyone know where I can find a sample uv photo by a un-modified D40? I am ready to return the D40x and get a D40 instead, that way no need to modify. it seems most flowers are done by this site and by KDS. so there is very little flowers left for me to do :D
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a bit of complication, he said he moved to UK! he was right next to me before that. now I need to pay an escrow company first.

 

If this isn't a scam it is the deal of a decade ...

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but he has photos to prove he has the lens.

 

it should be safe if I pay an escrow account first? {unless the escrow if his choosing and it is a scam itself} it does sound a bit fishy when he said he has no friends in Ann Arbor (when I suggested to him to ship to his friends and I test and buy).

 

Stay away - smells scam big time.

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Hi Zach - Welcome. I hope you enjoy the website.

 

The 135 Enna Munchen lens should work just fine. The question is whether you want to achieve infinity focus with this lens? That will determine your choice of camera so you can match up the register distance of that lens with a camera which supports it. But whichever camera you ultimately choose, I would recommend having it converted to 'broadband' by having the internal UV/IR blocking filter(s) removed. Then you will have freedom to shoot any wavelength with the appropriate external filter.

 

Any camera which has had its internal filters removed will shoot better than one which has not.

Newer cameras have much stronger filters than the old ones like the D70 or D40.

 

Good camera choices are any from these lines: Panasonic Lumix, Sony NEX, Nikon DSLRs (except for the "big" ones) or Pentax K. You can go to a site like KEH.com or B&H Used and find clean used cameras.

 

It is difficult to make fast exposures in UV even in bright sunlight. So you might want a UV flash.

 

There is a great deal of UV information which I have summarized in and posted in this section:

Stickies in the UV Stickies and Gear Lists.

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Why Nikon DSLR? Some mirrorless are as good as APS-C Nikons but offer much more flexibility when it comes to different lenses and different ways to mount filters. Ever tried to mount Baader U2 filter on a lens with 82mm filter thread?

 

http://www.holovachov.com/img/s12/v181/p535761447.jpg

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Folks: the UV-Nikkor has become a collector's item. Its price is now upwards of $5000.

You are not going to find a legitimate offering of a UV-Nikkor on Ebay or Amazon for a low price.

 

We do have one member who found a UV-Nikkor on a used camera equipment site for a good price.

But odds are that was a once-in-a-century find. (Lucky guy!)

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Alex, I just mentioned Lumix, NEX and Pentax. :D

But I do not know what it is that you are showing us here. It looks nice. Is this one of your NEXs??

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Alex, I just mentioned Lumix, NEX and Pentax. :D

But I do not know what it is that you are showing us here. It looks nice. Is this one of your NEXs??

 

Andrea, we are typing simultaneously.

 

What I show here is a lens I used to shoot UV with and posted about it on NG long ago. It has front filter threads 82mm in diameter. Where is the Baader than? Just some food for thoughts. The camera is Sony NEX-3 (full-spectrum).

 

135/2.8 Teleennalyt often comes in M42 and Exakta mounts, which are both not very suitable for mounting on Nikon bodies when one wants to reach infinity. The mount can be removed, however, and replaced with something custom-made.

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Rear mount a Baader-U if front element is 82mm?

 

[Or find some very exotic 82mm-48mm steppers and hope the vignetting

does not hide almost all of the picture. :D :) :lol: ]

 

*****

 

That's what I was looking for about the TeleEnnalyt - thanks!!

If M42, then Pentax would focus to infinity with no adapter and Lumix or NEX to 8 with the appropriate adapter.

If Exakta, then Lumix or NEX is the best choice for focus to infinity w.t.a.a.

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Thanks, Andrea. So, now I will simply keep my X135 lens, forget the Nikkor-UV (most likely a scam), and return my D40X and get a D3100 used and send to lifepixel for conversion.

the "problem" is then I will need a UV+IR blocker to shoot a normal image, an a UV+VIS blocker to pass IR to get IR images using my wide angle (20-35 mm Nikkor F2.8, i think 72 mm diameter). I already have a point and shoot modified for IR.

 

Zach

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