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Jolly Roger


Jolly Roger

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Jolly Roger

Just to introduce myself. I am a professional video journalist working in the woodworking field, but one of my interests is chicken keeping and I do some journalistic work for poultry magazines. I am currently researching how birds see, hence my recent interest in UV photography. Have just sent off an older camera body to be converted so have a tremendous amount to learn. I am afraid that I shall be a 'taker' rather than a 'giver' on this learned site, but I look forward to my involvement.

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

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Any alternative aspect of UV photography is highly welcomed here, so have no fears. Even the most advanced member has started at scratch some time in the past.
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Hello Alan and welcome to UVP. We are happy to try to help out any way we can. :D
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Have just sent off an older camera body to be converted so have a tremendous amount to learn. I am afraid that I shall be a 'taker' rather than a 'giver' on this learned site, but I look forward to my involvement.

 

Alan, Welcome!

 

I, myself, knew absolutely nothing of the field of UV photography - heck, not even anything about alternative-spectrum work, altogether (UV, IR, or otherwise) - just 3 years ago.

 

In three years time, I went from complete ignorance to some ignorance. Haha. :D

 

Now, I am at least doing UV (and IR) photography on a "working man's budget", and getting satisfying-enough results for the time being.

 

Believe me when I say, that the learning curve is not that steep, once you gain the fundamental knowledge of how UV-pass filters (or UV-pass / IR-blocking stacks) work, how to set "proper" white-balancing schemes for maximum color diversity within a UV image, and basic set-up in terms of sufficient-enough lenses for the job, exposure times, optimized aperture settings (to mitigate or reduce "focus shift"), camera stabilization techniques, and general post-processing / editing.

 

Not sure of your budget, but entry-level UV work need not be prohibitively expensive, nor inaccessible. All it takes is an investment in time, and a genuine level of curiosity in order to keep you motivated enough to keep learning. Of which there will be always something more to learn.

 

Welcome aboard, friend!

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Jolly Roger

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome, have been away for a few days so only just catching up with your comments.

 

Iggy, you sound like my kind of guy!! Definitely will be on a tight budget, this is just for my own interest and amusement but I find the whole thing totally fascinating.

 

Col, wow, that's just the sort of info I have been gathering and it really is fascinating stuff, not sure if I shall be able to show what I want to show though.

 

Haven't got the camera back yet, then I suppose it is just a matter of finding a suitable lens and filters, :-). May need to get back to you all on that one!!

 

Cheers for now,

 

Alan

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  • 2 weeks later...
Jolly Roger

OK guys you asked for it! I am a UV virgin so please be gentle! Not sure where to post this, but seem to have been doing OK on this thread so will continue, mods please move if incorrect.

 

I have just received my converted Canon 40D, now full spectrum, and need some guidance as to the next step. My skills lie elsewhere, and although eager to learn, I have very little (actually no) knowledge of the physics of all this. I want to take pics from a birds eye perspective to show how they can pick out seeds and grubs seemingly invisible within normal visible light. I gather I now need a suitable lens which will pass UV and a suitable UV pass filter, probably coupled with an IR cut filter.

 

For my 'real' job I have a pretty extensive Canon collection of modern lenses and adapters and a full Fuji outfit, but from my trawls through this forum and others I gather these are less than ideal. Looks like a Baader is the answer, but this is a bit of a personal interest, along with many others, so budget is a slight consideration. Would greatly appreciate suggestions for my next acquisitions, bearing in mind that this is part of a wider project, rather than a specific UV one, so quality of images is not paramount.

 

Thanks again, my apologies if this beginners question has already been addressed on here, but I have spent several evenings looking through old posts and cannot find a simple definitive answer, or maybe there isn't one.

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

 

PS I then want to move on to IR photography, or is that the dark side :-)

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Alan, we are always happy to help folks get started in UV photography.

 

See our UV Lens Sticky to see everything we know about UV-capable lenses.

LINK: http://www.ultraviol...uv-lenses-2014/

 

The list you want to look over for an affordable lens is headed: UV Lenses - Good UV Response with Some UV Focus Shift

 

There are a lot of Nikon lenses listed, but please don't let that put you off. This is because we started out on Nikongear and also because both Bjørn and I primarily use Nikon cameras. Remember that Nikon lenses adapt very well to Canon bodies because Canon's flange focal distance for recent gear is 44mm and Nikon's is 46.5mm. So any Nikon lens to Canon body adapter will give you infinity focus.

 

Similarly you can make use on a Canon cam of any Pentax screwmount (45.46mm) or most M42 (45.46mm) screwmount lenses if you need infinity focus. And our Lens Sticky has lots of those.

 

It is difficult to recommend any single specfic UV-capable lens because different lenses are available at different times. And I don't know what focal length you might be wanting.

 

So, look over the lens list to get familiar with the possibilities and then start searching Ebay or Amazon or other sellers of used lenses such as KEH.com to see what is available. Eventually you will find something. And we will try to help you weight the pros & cons of a possible purchase if you want to ask additional questions - and if anyone knows something about the lens in question.

 

**********

 

And now for a bit of Filter info. Of course we have a UVIR Filter Sticky too:

http://www.ultraviol...rs-sticky-2014/

 

Dedicated UV-Pass filter choices are either the Baader-U or the Precision-U. See the UVIR Filter Sticky for links to these filters. I'm not sure of the current prices but I think they are around $350 and $250 respectively.

 

Stacked UV-Pass filter choices:

  • The pre-stacked LUV U-2. I'm not sure of the price right now.
  • One of glass types U-340, U-360, UG1, UG5 or UG11 stacked together with something to block their strong IR leakage such as S8612 or BG39 glass.
    • Pre-mounted U or UG glass can run anywhere from $50 - $150 for a 52mm size. (...rough estimate...)
    • Pre-mounted IR blockers for the stack in a 52mm size run probably $50 - $100. (...again rough estimate...)
    • I've bought filters to stack from the Ebay seller UvrOptics, and there are other sellers of this glass on either Ebay or Amazon.

    [*]The B+W 403 UV-Pass filter can also be stacked with S8612 or BG39. But this filter is fairly pricey.

NOTE: UltravioletPhotography.com does not endorse vendors as a website. Any tips you get here are considered to be from the individual writing the post. :)

 

I hope this helps get you started. And please ask all the questions you like.

 

BTW, IR Photography is wonderful !!! Not the dark side at all. :D Most of us who shoot in alternate light are familiar with both UV and IR.

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Welcome Alan,

 

Looking forward to seeing what you scratch up (LOL) on chicken vision!

 

For an entry level near UV lens you could do a lot worse than an 80mm f/5.6 EL-Nikkor (older chrome version). The 63mm f/3.5 has historically been hailed as superior for UV. However, strong evidence exists that the 63mm is actually no better than most of the other EL-Nikkors and not worth the disproportionately high price.

 

Here is a link to a helpful review: http://www.savazzi.n...l-nikkor_uv.htm

 

- John

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Jolly Roger

Many thanks to you both for all that information, will now need to go through it carefully. I think the first step is obviously a suitable lens, will probably get back to you for advice when I locate a possible. Its great to be on here, but so much to learn and so many other interests. Its seems odd that the older you get the more information you feel desperate to acquire, thanks again. :D

 

Alan

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Jolly Roger

Having read the lens sticky, and bearing in mind my limited budget and use, it seems that Nikkor EL lenses would give me a reasonable start. The 50mm in various apertures seem to be freely available at minimal cost. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks in advance.

 

Alan

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The older chrome EL-Nikkor 50s should give you decent UV transmission between 350-400nm.

Here is a link to some EL measurements: http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/2011/01/el-nikkor-enlager-lenses-for-uv.html

 

Newer EL-Nikkors may have aperture illumination windows which can cause light leaks. They can be plugged up, but it is best to try to find an older EL which does not have them.

 

EL-Nikkors were designed to be bellows lenses. If you don't want to use a bellows, then you will need a Canon focusing helicoid. It is probably easiest to find a Canon-M42 helicoid and get an M42-M39 ring for the M39 screwmount EL-Nikkor 50. It is possible that Canon-M39 helicoids exist - not something I know about.

 

The flange focal distance for a current Canon body is 44mm. So you will not be able to focus a 50mm EL-Nikkor to infinity on a Canon body. I don't have a way to know just how far away you would be able to focus. If being able to focus to infinity is important, then try to look for a chrome 80mm EL-Nikkor which has a flange focal distance of 70mm.

 

Hope this helps. :D

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Jolly Roger

Thanks Andrea,

 

I already have a bellows so that's no problem, and infinity focusing doesn't concern me either. Looks like the 80mm is a better bet, might wait until one comes up somewhere, on the other hand I am itching to get going so might go for 50mm as a cheap starter 'to get my eye in' (carefully!) :D

 

Thanks

 

Alan

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Alan,

The 75mm is also purported to perform as well but I have not tried one.

With a flange focal depth of 63mm (3 less than the 80mm) it is likely also as adaptable for infinity focus.

Prices look like they are running a bit higher than 50mm's but not by much.

There is an eBay seller that makes adapters to mount 48mm and 52mm (I have some of these) filters

Also, on the N series EL-Nikkors there is a flange that can be rotated 120° to cover the light path for the illuminated dial.

​All of mine are the older type so someone else may wish to advise us if that solves the light leak sufficiently.

John

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Where is that flange thingie on the N models ??

I have an all black 80/5.6 EL, but wasn't aware of a light path cover.

I'm looking at it, but not seeing anything.

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Where is that flange thingie on the N models ??

I have an all black 80/5.6 EL, but wasn't aware of a light path cover.

I'm looking at it, but not seeing anything.

 

Does the back of it look like this?

http://www.savazzi.net/photography/images/D2C_2615c.JPG

If so then remove the 3 screws and rotate the flange or cover or whatever you call it 120° and replace the screws.

Like I said I do not have one of these type so am eager to learn if this solves the light leak problem.

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yes!

 

I went astray on the word 'flange'. :D No matter. (That word becomes hilarious if you say it 50 times in a row, but I digress.)

 

Now looking for the bitsy little screwdrivers.

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  • 1 month later...

Alan,

 

I just remembered why I wish I had a Canon to experiment with!

There is a company called Astronomik that makes a neat internal filter system called a Clip-Filter. see: http://www.astronomi...ter-system.html

I do not recall any discussions here about it and am unable to find if they make it in a suitable UV pass filter.

Wish they made a clip type filter for other camera brands.

 

Another supplier of a similar system is Hutech with a system that takes 37mm filters.

see: http://www.sciencece...ers/ffilter.htm

and: http://www.sciencece...das/mfa/mfa.pdf

You might be able to source an alternate filter into this system more easily.

 

The set up I most wish was available for more bodies is of course the Baader protective T-ring which takes large filters including the favored U-filter.

see: http://www.baader-planetarium.de/sektion/s17/s17-en.htm

 

Having fun yet?

- JD

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Jolly Roger

Many thanks JD, will have a good look at this. Sadly, this project is very much a 'fun' one and 'real' work has got in the way big style at the moment so haven't really progressed much further yet apart from a lot of online browsing. Hopefully will get a chance to get back into it shortly, converted camera is ready and waiting, my chickens are ready and waiting, I am ready and waiting........!!

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

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...... 'real' work has got in the way big style at the moment ..............

 

Boy! I know what you mean!

To many irons in the fire as Grandmother used to say!

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  • 4 weeks later...
Jolly Roger

I'm still here, but with retirement looming at the end of June I am desperately trying to get geared up for my UV work to be able to hit the ground running, between tying up all the remaining work and loose ends of 40 years of self employment! Still looking for a suitable lens to get me started, will no doubt be back asking more questions in a few weeks time!

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

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...retirement looming at the end of June...

...40 years of self employment!

 

Congratulations are in order then!

But I think we self employed folk never really retire!

- John

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Alan, retirement can be a big step, but it opens the door to all sorts of interesting pursuits. I've never been happier myself post-retirement. Just busier than ever !! :)

We will all be happy to help out with any UV questions you may have.

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