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UV Camera Insect Vision Video
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#1 Ockertfc

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 23:30

Hello All

I am excited to join this group and explore the world of UV photography.

My interest are in "insect vision" or simulated insect vision. I work in the flower industry and am starting a little side project to learn more about the unseen variation in our crops.

Other than being a nerd, I have no experience in UV photography and am planning on using this as a learning platform and hopefully in the near future share some images.

#2 nfoto

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 05:32

Welcome to our growing international community. Acknowledging oneself to be a "nerd" is not the worst of starting points for exploring UV (or IR) !!

#3 Andy Perrin

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 06:00

Plenty of interest in insect vision around here, although I think the conclusion everyone who dives into the subject comes to eventually is that there just isn't any way to translate bird or insect perception into human perception faithfully. Our cameras just don't work like bug eyes, the sensors aren't retinas, and the brains doing the "seeing" aren't using the information the way a human would. (For example, bees seem to use UV primarily to location the horizon, I think I read in one of the papers people linked.) Of course, lots of people here still TRY! I think it's analogous to how 2D maps can't represent the spherical Earth without some kind of distortion, but cartographers still use different projections to convey different kinds of information.

#4 UlfW

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 08:54

The "simulated insect vision" images are produced by a combination of light from UV and parts of the VIS range.

Regardless if they really represent any real insect vision ( I agree with Andy above), this type of images sometimes reveal more interesting information that is not visible in pure UV-images.

There are several filter stack combinations that give different effects of this type, even if only one is said to be the correct one.
The result is actually very dependent on several factors like camera sensor response, light source spectra and post processing.
The post processing is more difficult than a more common "UV-only" image as the needed channel intensity adjustments for a proper white balance is more brutal.

Edited by UlfW, 12 January 2021 - 08:55.

Ulf Wilhelmson
Curious and trying to see the invisible.

#5 Ockertfc

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 20:28

I like Andy's analogy of using 2D maps to represent the earth. Very valid point about what insects really see.

One thing we will be looking to establish would be if some of the unseen (under normal conditions) variation in our flower crops will be favored more or less by the insects we use during seed production. Do I believe I will get a chance to see what the insects see, no. Do I hope that by exploring images in the UV range will help us see useful variation, yes.

Not yet knowing how difficult the journey will be I am super excited. We work with nearly 200 species of flower and I cant wait to explore some of hidden variation.

I am putting a shopping list together from Maxmax.com would it be appropriate to present the list on this forum and ask what type of images I can expect to produce using the setup in mind? Before I purchase equipment I would like to set clear expectations.

Ulf, you mention another very important aspect that needs addressing before dipping my toes. That is the aspect of processing images. For the most part I plan on working in a greenhouse or outside in the field. Outside I trust the sun will be a good source of UV, but will likely need a light source for greenhouse work.

#6 Ockertfc

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 20:32

Brina,
I enjoyed the looking at the photostream on your flickr account, especially the dandelion
https://www.flickr.c...th/49727739433/

#7 Andy Perrin

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 20:40

Before you buy the equipment is definitely the right time! :grin:

#8 Ockertfc

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 21:14

My goal is to capture images in the UV range from flowers in the greenhouse and field.
On the images below I circled examples of what I am aiming for.
Attached Image: UV1.JPG
Attached Image: UV2.JPG

This is the setup I am thinking about:

UV-VIS-IR camera
Pancake Lens
52 mm to 58 mm Step up ring
330 nm Filter
Band Pass Filter 320 - 670 nm
UV Flash

Given the above equipment can I reasonably expect to achieve images such as above?
Should I be looking at specific software? We run on windows systems, ideally required software will work on PC.

Looking at my goals above, what is your number one recommended thread to read from this forum?

Edited by Ockertfc, 12 January 2021 - 21:23.


#9 Andy Perrin

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 03:08

You should take that post and make a new topic for it!

#10 ori333

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 17:15

Greetings,

You'll find lots of wonderful information and people here.
I'm still an amateur but it looks like our goals overlap. I'm a PhD student and working on highlighting the "unseen variations" in real-time using augmented reality. The thesis is to present this technology to people in fields like yours in a manner that is instantaneous and accessible at all times. I always thought, "How can you truly do your job if you are blind to the world your target audience is looking at?"

My lab is mostly into biomechanics and augmented reality, so all the UV photography resources are primarily from this forum, books they recommend, and contacts that were provided.

Maybe we can collaborate or at some point into the project or I can ask you some questions about your work and how our application can fit.

Edited by ori333, 27 February 2021 - 17:16.