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A Flower I Don't Know

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#21 Andrea B.

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 23:40

These are very nicely photographed, Cadmium.

To identify a flower like this, I first goto the USDA Plants Database and make a list of the flora in the given county of the given state. Then I narrow that down to the obvious candidates. In this case I wanted to look at Picris, Crepis and Hieracium, because I knew the leaves were not correct for Hypochaeris or Leontondon. And the flower itself told me that it was not a Latuca, Mycelis, Tragopogon, Sonchus, Latuca or any other similar flower.

I'm familiar with most of the Hieracium, so I was reasonably sure from the start that this was not a Hieracium. One can get easily confused with Hieracium if attempting detailed identification of species, but Hieracium are easy enough to rule out. Picris I do not know well, but the given state has only Picris echioides, which was quickly ruled out. So I was left with Crepis and quickly drilled down to C. setosa. Easy to guess that was the one after seeing the hairiness in Cadmium's photos, but I did look at a Crepis key. And I also looked at an iPad app, Oregon Wildflowers to get a handle on some visuals before keying.

Given that the Flora of North America has 20 volumes, the described method is really the only way to get a handle on an unknown flower. There's no way I could start directly with the Asteraceae in FNA !!!
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#22 dabateman

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 03:25

I love these detailed analysis.
I was just thinking its a yellow flower.

I also now think it looks like the flower in my neighbor yard that I picked and photographed to test out the raspberry pi in UV thinking it was a dandelion. Same branched stem.
Fortunately, it had the same dark center like a Dandelion. For UV tests.

#23 Cadmium

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 04:03

Yeah, I was more just taking a photo of a yellow flower. :smile:
That's for all the flower name suggestions, but so far I have not seen flower suggestion that I think are this flower.
For example, although there are many similarities to some of the photos on this link, all of those example have a tuft of ground level leaves.
https://oregonstate....sbeard_page.htm
My flower has absolutely no ground leaves, just a stem, with leaves further up.
No ground leaves.

Attached Image: Flower_Unkown_Visual_Side_byh_Sidel_1100.jpg

Edited by Cadmium, 18 July 2020 - 04:27.


#24 Andrea B.

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 05:31

Not every occurence of a particular species is fully formed.

And there aren't any other yellow Asteraceae in Oregon with that stem leaf.


The 3rd photo (from left) on this CalPhoto page shows a Crepis setosa without a basal rosette.
https://calphotos.be...id=&max_rows=24
Andrea G. Blum
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#25 OlDoinyo

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:13

To confuse things further, there are quite a few introduced species in North America (e.g. Sonchus spp.) which may or may not appear in standard references.

#26 Cadmium

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 06:08

Here is my UV film simulation. It is a channel mix of the BUG 5 shot.
https://www.ultravio...-1594961284.jpg
Attached Image: Flower_unknown_BUG_1_Channel_Mix_1200.jpg

Edited by Cadmium, 20 July 2020 - 06:09.


#27 Andrea B.

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 22:38

To confuse things further, there are quite a few introduced species in North America (e.g. Sonchus spp.) which may or may not appear in standard references.

Floras and field guides do include non-native species. :smile:

*******

Cadmium, this BUG channel mix does remind me of some of Birna's film work.
I always liked the UV photos with the red bullseyes.

I've been on the Oregon Flora Project to look at the Crepis setosa and other yellow Asteraceae.
http://www.oregonflora.org/gallery.php
They have a very cool collection of photos. I love finding this kind of documentation.
Andrea G. Blum
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#28 Cadmium

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 03:37

Yep, I always liked those UV from camera photos with the red. Basically red/white/blue looks. Not being patriotic or anything like that, just a nice look.
The red/white of a dandelion, looks very appealing. Birna has many older example of that online in different places.
Whatever the flower is above, it seems to be fairly prolific in my yard at this stage of the summer.

#29 Andy Perrin

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 04:46

Was the red caused by using film, or was it digital and caused by the IR leak that was at that time not known?

#30 OlDoinyo

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 13:37

View PostAndy Perrin, on 26 July 2020 - 04:46, said:

Was the red caused by using film, or was it digital and caused by the IR leak that was at that time not known?

I know that U-type glass leaks some visible red in addition to IR. Even film with no IR sensitivity will then pick this up, and perhaps this is what explains it.

#31 Stefano

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 14:31

I remember (I may be wrong) discussing this here: https://www.ultravio...-the-early-days

Have my posts been deleted?

I basically said that if something is black, no matter the white balance or what you use to capture the image (sensor or film), it should always be black.

I agree that some deep red light can still contaminate film.

Edited by Stefano, 26 July 2020 - 14:36.


#32 Cadmium

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 19:14

Here is Birna's page about UV film photography.
http://www.naturfoto...om/uvfilms.html

#33 Andrea B.

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 17:38

Off-topic Editor Note:
Stefano asks have my posts been deleted in Birna's Gallery space.
Yes, they have. Comments are not permitted in the Gallery section where members present some of their work in portfolio format.
Andrea G. Blum
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#34 Stefano

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 18:15

View PostAndrea B., on 30 July 2020 - 17:38, said:

Off-topic Editor Note:
Stefano asks have my posts been deleted in Birna's Gallery space.
Yes, they have. Comments are not permitted in the Gallery section where members present some of their work in portfolio format.
That was my guess. Thank you for making this explicit.