Cadmium Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 This little flower measures about 12mm-15mm in diameter when fully open. It is new to my yard as far as I know. I don't know what it is.It is a little like a miniature dandelion.I have two sets of shots, same kind of flower, but two different flowers. The first is shot more in the sun and is more open, the second is shot more in the shade and is more closedNote the swirled color on the back of the petals that are not opened, in the UV and BUG shots in set #1 (upper right).Nikon D7000 UVIR, UV-Nikkor 105mm. Set #1Visual (Schott BG38) UV (Hoya U-360 2mm + Schott S8612 2mm) BUG (Schott UG5 1.5mm + S8612 2mm) Side by side Set #2Visual (Schott BG38) UV (Hoya U-360 2mm + Schott S8612 2mm) BUG (Schott UG5 1.5mm + S8612 2mm) IR (Schott RG9) Side by side Link to comment
dabateman Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 These look great. It must be a type of dandelion. I think I remember Birna saying there are 100s of different types of just dandelions.I think I like the suttle accent of the green tips better than the full out in the open green center. Link to comment
Cadmium Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 Thanks! I have to say, this UV-Nikkor 105mm, is addicting. It is so perfect for flowers, the distance, and put the extension tube on it (Nikon PN-11) it to get closer shots.Sharp too.Please consider there was a lot of gentle but relentless wind today. The answer is blowing in the wind they say. Link to comment
Andy Perrin Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 It looks more like hawkweed to me (which are related to dandelions, I think?). Link to comment
bvf Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I would guess a crepis dandelion (which I think covers Hawkweed/Hawks-beard). I envy you for the UV-Nik ! Link to comment
Adrian Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Yes, a Hawkbit I think: Leontodon sp. Link to comment
nfoto Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Dandelions never have branched stems. As to the ID, there are simply too many genera in this family to make an educated guess. Showing the entire plant and foliage alwways is required in rder to arrive at an ID. That being said, nice photos which also show what the UV-Nikkor can deliver. It certainly is "addictive" for UV aficionados. Link to comment
Stefano Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I too have similar branched flowers. I wonder if DNA is sometimes the only option to identify a species. Link to comment
Cadmium Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 Maybe this will help. Cloudy today, but this should give an idea of the entire plant.There is another plant, which has a similar slightly larger flower, but it has a broad leafy ground base (kind of like a dandelion would have), but the flower I show abovedoesn't have a broad leafy ground base, it just has the leaves on the stem.Take a look and compare, see what you think: The flower/plant above. The other flower plant with broad leafy ground base (not in any of the photos above, just for comparison). Link to comment
Andy Perrin Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Well, they have branched stems for sure. So not-dandelions. Link to comment
nfoto Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Leontoodon, Picris, Hieracium, Crepis, Scorzonera, .... the list goes on and on. Use Flora of North America which is an eFlora to key out the relevant options. Link to comment
Stefano Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Leontoodon, Picris, Hieracium, Crepis, Scorzonera, .... the list goes on and on.I looked at images of all the species you cited. They are very similar indeed. That's very confusing... maybe even a trained eye has trouble distinguishing them. Link to comment
nfoto Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 They are well delineated as far as Asteracean genera go. However, this family *is* the biggest of them all with 25K + species. Use the Flora keys. Link to comment
Cadmium Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 Thanks.As I said, the flower has no leaves at the base on the ground. I see a lot like that, but not this one. Link to comment
Bill De Jager Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 If it helps any, this plant appears to be in the Cichorieae tribe within the Asteraceae. That narrows things down quite a bit but still leaves many genera and thousands of species as possibilities. Link to comment
Andrea B. Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The rays, growth habit and basal leaves indicate a Crepis species. Several Crepis species grow in your county, Cadmium. I will key this later after I finish my remaining tax return.Note that the basal leaves wrap around the stem and have "ears", extensions at the stem end. Added: sorry forgot to add..... .....indicate a Crepis or a Hieracium species. I was looking at the whole plant photos and not sure which corresponds to what. Link to comment
Andrea B. Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Wait a sec. I think I got confused.For the flower you photographed in UV, which of the photos in Post #9 correspond to it. Link to comment
Cadmium Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 Hi Andrea, The flower I photographed is the one that has no base/ground leaves, this one:https://www.ultravioletphotography.com/content/uploads/monthly_07_2020/post-87-0-54734800-1594998383.jpg Link to comment
Andrea B. Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The flower has only one series of phyllaries, so it is not a Hawkweed (Hieracium species).So I have at this point either Crepis or Picris ***IF*** the seeds are not beaked. Link to comment
Andrea B. Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I suggest Crepis setosa for further investigation. Here is a reference link from Oregon State University: https://oregonstate....sbeard_page.htm The plant on the left is C. setosa.Scroll down to see photos #3 and #4 on the left. They show the clasping, "eared" leaf which looks just like in your photo. In this OSU reference, the poster refers to two rows of phyllaries on C. setosa under the last photo on the left.I interpreted your flower as having one row of phyllaries and some underlying calyculi.It is probably la même différence. Link to comment
Andrea B. Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 These are very nicely photographed, Cadmium. To identify a flower like this, I first goto the USDA Plants Database and make a list of the flora in the given county of the given state. Then I narrow that down to the obvious candidates. In this case I wanted to look at Picris, Crepis and Hieracium, because I knew the leaves were not correct for Hypochaeris or Leontondon. And the flower itself told me that it was not a Latuca, Mycelis, Tragopogon, Sonchus, Latuca or any other similar flower. I'm familiar with most of the Hieracium, so I was reasonably sure from the start that this was not a Hieracium. One can get easily confused with Hieracium if attempting detailed identification of species, but Hieracium are easy enough to rule out. Picris I do not know well, but the given state has only Picris echioides, which was quickly ruled out. So I was left with Crepis and quickly drilled down to C. setosa. Easy to guess that was the one after seeing the hairiness in Cadmium's photos, but I did look at a Crepis key. And I also looked at an iPad app, Oregon Wildflowers to get a handle on some visuals before keying. Given that the Flora of North America has 20 volumes, the described method is really the only way to get a handle on an unknown flower. There's no way I could start directly with the Asteraceae in FNA !!! Link to comment
dabateman Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I love these detailed analysis.I was just thinking its a yellow flower. I also now think it looks like the flower in my neighbor yard that I picked and photographed to test out the raspberry pi in UV thinking it was a dandelion. Same branched stem.Fortunately, it had the same dark center like a Dandelion. For UV tests. Link to comment
Cadmium Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 Yeah, I was more just taking a photo of a yellow flower. That's for all the flower name suggestions, but so far I have not seen flower suggestion that I think are this flower.For example, although there are many similarities to some of the photos on this link, all of those example have a tuft of ground level leaves.https://oregonstate....sbeard_page.htmMy flower has absolutely no ground leaves, just a stem, with leaves further up.No ground leaves. Link to comment
Andrea B. Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Not every occurence of a particular species is fully formed. And there aren't any other yellow Asteraceae in Oregon with that stem leaf. The 3rd photo (from left) on this CalPhoto page shows a Crepis setosa without a basal rosette.https://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-lifeform=any&rel-taxon=contains&where-taxon=crepis+setosa&rel-namesoup=matchphrase&where-namesoup=&rel-location=matchphrase&where-location=&rel-county=eq&where-county=any&rel-state=eq&where-state=any&rel-country=eq&where-country=any&where-collectn=any&rel-photographer=contains&where-photographer=&rel-kwid=equals&where-kwid=&max_rows=24 Link to comment
OlDoinyo Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 To confuse things further, there are quite a few introduced species in North America (e.g. Sonchus spp.) which may or may not appear in standard references. Link to comment
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