• Ultraviolet Photography
  •  

Lee Blue filter test to get the Aerochrome Red in camera

Filters
149 replies to this topic

#41 UlfW

    Ulf W

  • Members+G
  • 1,110 posts
  • Location: Sweden, Malmö

Posted 24 March 2019 - 15:41

I expect to receive the samples stack of Lee filters within a few weeks.

I plan to measure the transmission of some selected filters, maybe eventually all of them.
I have not yet any preference for what to begin with and am open to suggestions where to start.
I will naturally publish the results here.
Ulf Wilhelmson
Curious and trying to see the invisible.

#42 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 24 March 2019 - 19:25

Which one did you get? I have the 'Numeric' one.
The graphs they have online show 400nm to 700nm,
The paper graphs with the swatches show 250nm to 800nm.

#43 UlfW

    Ulf W

  • Members+G
  • 1,110 posts
  • Location: Sweden, Malmö

Posted 24 March 2019 - 19:50

View PostCadmium, on 24 March 2019 - 19:25, said:

Which one did you get? I have the 'Numeric' one.
The graphs they have online show 400nm to 700nm,
The paper graphs with the swatches show 250nm to 800nm.

I don't know what I will get.
I just mentioned that it would nice to have a sample stack when I ordered the Scuba, Blue and the said they will add a sample stack to the shipment..

Let's hope it will be a good one.
Ulf Wilhelmson
Curious and trying to see the invisible.

#44 dabateman

    Da Bateman

  • Members+G
  • 1,976 posts
  • Location: Maryland

Posted 25 March 2019 - 05:00

View PostUlfW, on 24 March 2019 - 15:41, said:

I expect to receive the samples stack of Lee filters within a few weeks.

I plan to measure the transmission of some selected filters, maybe eventually all of them.

My numerical and designer's edition swatch books look to have about 350 filters in them. So it may take you some time to spec all of them. But a couple are opaque, like the small reflector samples, so you probably should try to spec those.

#45 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 25 March 2019 - 05:39

I think maybe only one of the swatch versions may have less than the entire selection of filters.
So you are pretty safe about getting all of them I guess.
http://www.leefilter...-resources.html

#46 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 28 March 2019 - 20:01

I hope your not getting sick and tired of me and my #729 filter...
I got thinking about the little red shed and the red barn. They are visually red objects, yet the 729 filter suppresses visual red.
David Twede pointed out to me that the red paint has titanium in it which reflects IR, so the visually red shed is red in these pics because of reflected IR.
Somehow this was just a little hard for me to believe. So I tested that by stacking the 729 + KG3 2mm with S8612 2mm to suppress all IR.
See what I got below with all IR removed? Voilà, a black shed. :)

Lee Scuba Blue #729 + KG3 2mm, in camera CWB from gray card, sun with haze.
Attached Image: 729_KG3_2mm_CWB_haze_1280.jpg

Lee Scuba Blue #729 + KG3 2mm + S8612 2mm. This removes all IR, so the shed, barn, and tail lights are all black.
Attached Image: 729_KG3_2mm_CWB_haze_S8612_IR_Block_1280.jpg

Here is BG25 2mm + KG3 2mm, using same CWB as the above shots because with my Nikon the BG25 stack is too dark to make a CWB with.
Attached Image: BG25_KG3_2mm_using_729_CWB_haze_1280.jpg

Edited by Cadmium, 29 March 2019 - 02:33.


#47 dabateman

    Da Bateman

  • Members+G
  • 1,976 posts
  • Location: Maryland

Posted 29 March 2019 - 04:05

I think that argument makes some sense. But I don't know why my red plastic container doesn't change. I will have to see if it too is reflecting IR. Could be why it didn't change with my SD14 tests. Though with the SD14 lights went yellow and my traffic light had interesting colors.
Also was hoping the Suba alone would work on my Em5mk2 stock camera. As it has a weak IR block filter internally. However, I can't get it to white balance. But maybe I need to try a f1.2 lens to get more light. I was finally able to get a custom WB using my 390bp25 filter using a strong light source.
Kolari says in their IR Chrome filter, that it will only work with full spectrum converted cameras. So maybe the Suba combination is similar.
I am awaiting my GRB3 filters from china. Hopefully, they really are equivalent to KG3 filters, as the cost was attractive.

#48 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:18

The S8612 stack answers that question for everything red I can find in my scene, but I can't say if your container is reflecting IR or not.
The red shed and barn and tail lights don't 'change' either, they stay looking pretty much the same as a visual only shot, so much so that one might think they are showing the visual red in the 729 shots.
Your container stays red also. Try some IR longpass filter and see if the container reflects IR.
I have not tried the 729 filter alone since I started doing the in camera custom white balance for these shots. I should try that next time I shoot with this stack.
David Twede shows both 729 and 729 + KG3, they looks very similar, so we should be able to get a fairly similar red without the KG3, and that is all about white balance I think.
However, as much as I have argued in favor of out of camera white balance from RAW over the years, this really made my head spin when I got much better white balance in camera.
Just lucky that I could do it in camera, because so many filters and stacks will not white balance in my Nikons.
Old Nikon D200's use to be able to do it well, I have been told, never had one of those myself, but my D90, and D7000 don't do it well, and I have been told this is true of even the newest models also, D810, D850.
However, I am under the impression than many of the mirror-less cameras and others will white balance easier for some of these crazy filters we use compared to Nikons.
I almost gave up trying to make this work when white balancing from RAW, it worked, but no where near as good.
I think you are white balancing in camera, so I am not applying this blabber to you, just to me. I was very surprised when I used in camera white balance for this.
I should try doing a custom white balance for the 729 alone. To be continued... ;)
And thanks again, for starting this topic and finding David's link and all... I am having fun with this.

PS: forgot to mention, notice how the yellow tail light is still yellow in the S8612 stack addition.

Edited by Cadmium, 29 March 2019 - 06:49.


#49 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:48

I checked it out, that is a Ford Ranger, the tail lights are Red and Clear. The part I thought was yellow is actually clear. I looked up the tail light model.
https://st.motortren...k-taillight.png
Here is a close up crop.

729 + KG3
Attached Image: Truck_Lights_729.jpg

729+KG3+S8612 (IR removed)
Attached Image: Truck_Lights_729_No_IR.jpg

Edited by Cadmium, 29 March 2019 - 06:53.


#50 ins13

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 247 posts

Posted 02 April 2019 - 19:28

View PostGaryR, on 18 March 2019 - 14:52, said:

Took the Rosco Scuba Blue + CC2
What harmonious colors!! I'm thinking how can i do a similar with my filters in the availability...
Eka

#51 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 03 April 2019 - 00:36

Either Lee or Rosco brand Scuba Blue #729 polyester film filters are available on eBay for about $7 a sheet.
KG3 or KG1 (KG1 = CC2) are available on eBay, more expensive, usually found as 50mm squares for about ~$25~.

#52 dabateman

    Da Bateman

  • Members+G
  • 1,976 posts
  • Location: Maryland

Posted 03 April 2019 - 17:43

The Chinese KG3 equivalent is GRB3. Very cheap and I am waiting for mine in the mail. When it arrives, I will let you know if I get similar colors to what Cadmium has posted.

#53 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 03 April 2019 - 20:44

David, You should be able to get similar colors with no KG, just the 729. There isn't much difference with the ones David Twede did.

#54 ins13

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 247 posts

Posted 04 April 2019 - 08:53

It's interesting!
And I'm probably going to try it with russian glass СЗС3 or СЗС9 or maybe even СЗС8. I don't know...
to me they are easier to get :)

Attached Image: ht729-scuba-blue сзс.jpg
Eka

#55 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 04 April 2019 - 09:02

Those will not work. They don't transmit IR in the 700nm + range.
Those will look something like the second photo test in the post above:
http://www.ultraviol...dpost__p__26634
You will only get mostly green and blue.
Here is a wider graph of #729. This is the graph you will find in the swatch book, their online graphs don't show transmission above 700nm.
You need IR also to make it work, that is where the red comes from.

It is a green peaking visual filter, it suppresses visual red completely, and it transmits IR started at about 725nm.
Attached Image: Lee_Scuba_Blue_729_wider_graph.jpg

Edited by Cadmium, 04 April 2019 - 09:13.


#56 ins13

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 247 posts

Posted 04 April 2019 - 09:23

Oh, I had the wrong graph. I had thought how the 729 did it. Now everything has been cleared up. Cadmium, thank you very much!!
Eka

#57 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 05 April 2019 - 10:37

No Problem. I wish the Lee and Rosco polyester film filters had transmission graphs that go much higher than just 800nm even.
They do go down to 300nm though, which is nice.
I think these filters are intended usually for lighting, so visual range.
Ulf said he might be doing some spectrometer graphs of some of these sometime. That would give more info on their transmission.

Edited by Cadmium, 05 April 2019 - 10:38.


#58 ins13

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 247 posts

Posted 05 April 2019 - 12:16

I tried with two blue Tiffen filters and a yellow-green ЖЗС9 filter together. It seems to work out nearly similar. But there is little greenery. Not very clear. so I could be wrong. it's not very spring here. yet
Eka

#59 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 06 April 2019 - 07:24

You need a filter that suppresses red, entirely. The 729 suppresses 560nm to 725nm completely.
There are other filters that suppress red partly.
Get a piece of 729, it's very inexpensive, then you can compare.

Here is an eBay listing that will ship to Russia: 302519643628
With shipping it will cost you under $30, most of which is shipping.
Maybe you can find Scuba Blue #729 in Russia, I don't know.

Edited by Cadmium, 06 April 2019 - 07:50.


#60 Cadmium

    Member

  • Members+G
  • 3,691 posts

Posted 06 April 2019 - 08:03

Try this place. Lee's site says it is a Lee dealer.
http://www.leefilter...ler-camera.html

Who knows what they might have available:

FotoFrame LLC
5 Donskoy Proezd, Building 15, Stroenie 3, 119334 Moscow
Russia
Phone: +7 (495) 234 9915
Email: photo@photosale.ru

Street view... see little door (with steps and ramp?). Watch out for cell phone antennas on roof.
https://www.google.c...!7i13312!8i6656