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Kolarivision IR Chrome 'Aerochrome' filter

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#41 Cadmium

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 17:10

Adrian, The H.H. Photoshop action is what I often use with #12, or yellow to orange filters, such as Schott GG## to OG550, etc..
I usually have to adjust the last hue part of the action to about +20 to get the reds to look right for me.
I seldom adjust anything else in the action except sometimes I lower the contrast at that stage of the action.
That action does make visual red turn yellow, like EIR/Aerochrome would.
I have even used that action of filters as high as 590nm with some very interesting results.
Attached Image: 54_1zcx_eir_12.jpg

Attached Image: EIR_CW_Graves_1280.jpg

Edited by Cadmium, 27 February 2019 - 21:23.


#42 GaryR

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 18:47

Great colors Cadium!
UlfW, Thanks for the 'Tiffen 12' link. I'll have to play around with it more, but it works fine on my Win10, CS6 desktop. The NS aerochrome profile that I currently use, works well, but interesting, in that visual red turns green, instead of yellow. In any of my old 35mm EIR shots from the 70s, visual red turns yellow, so I expect the red to green shift, would have something to do with processing.

The original Kodak Aerochrome III publication also mentions that visual red results in green.
Reflectance of orginal subject:............Blue....Green.....Red...Infrared
..............................................................v.......... v.......... v...........v
Resulting colors in transparency:.......Black.....Blue.....Green....Red

With the IR Chrome filter in mind, I stacked a Tiffen 80a blue, with a Hoya X1 green, then CWB on a gray card (FS-Sony a7R). I'm looking forward to the IR Chrome, but fun to play around with filter combinations, nonetheless.

This is the SOOC results; red car tail lights remain red.
Attached Image: _DSC0871.JPG

Same as above, with correction.
Attached Image: _DSC0871_.jpg

NS aerochrome profile, red car tail lights turn green
Attached Image: _DSC0872.JPG

#43 OlDoinyo

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:22

Taillight lenses transmit both infrared and red but block green and blue; therefore, they appear yellow(ish) in IRG images which render the combination as red+green. IRG images are obtained from light that is restricted to green and longer wavelengths. If one uses an IGB filter pack instead (blocking red rather than blue,) protocols such as Nick Spiker's might behave unpredictably, as this is applying them outside their design use case. For one thing, the pure infrared signal would appear in the red channel rather than the blue one, and the algorithm would not know this, nor that the blue channel contains actual blue as well as infrared. I am surprised that the results in the last image are not stranger than they appear to be.

#44 Cadmium

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 04:28

I use the H.H. action usually, for #12 and other yellow/orange range longpass filters.
Tail lights turn yellow (or is that green?) but remember, I find that I need adjust the final segment of the action (hue) to about +20, usually, depending sometimes on the filter I used,
but that adjustment may be entirely different for you depending on various factors, regardless it can be used to get the red looking closer to how you think it should.
I also usually adjust the contrast segment earlier in the action also, but that final hue segment will change overall hues, red and yellows.

Here is a comparison before the action and after, of some tail lights. Yellow? Green?
Attached Image: 12_to_EIR_Via_H_H_B_A_1280.jpg

#45 GaryR

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 21:42

From your explanation Clark, and your examples Cadium (Steve?), I can see that my results aren't too far off. The yellow-ish (or green-ish) tail lights, in the row of cars, are similar to what I get with the NS profile.

I'll do a new post to show my recent results.

#46 dabateman

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 04:08

I found this blog interesting:

https://next-eyes.bl...tal-ir.html?m=1

May explain whats going on with this filter.

Also what surprised me is the Kolari filter may work on a Sigma camera:
https://www.dpreview.../thread/4364149


#47 Cadmium

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 04:48

David, I think you may be onto something there with the Scuba Blue + KG3 stack in your first link.
Never tried a Scuba Blue before.
Nice find, thanks for posting that.

I have a feeling some people will be ordering some Lee Scuba Blue.
Large sheet, small price too.
I thought I had some KG3 around here, but I can't find it... will get some.

Edited by Cadmium, 06 March 2019 - 07:27.


#48 Cadmium

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:13

Based on the Lee Scuba Blue #729 gel filter + Schott KG3 filter stack described in David's link (above, and here again below).
https://next-eyes.bl...tal-ir.html?m=1

Here are a couple graphs I made to visualize this idea.

Lee Scuba Blue #729 gel + Schott KG3 stack:
Attached Image: Scuba_Bluie_729_x_Schott_KG3_2mm.jpg

Hoya B-410 + Schott KG3 stack:
Attached Image: Hoya_B410_x_Schott_KG3_Stack.jpg

Edited by Cadmium, 06 March 2019 - 07:28.


#49 dabateman

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 13:41

Cadmium,
Have you tried to shoot with the B410 to see if you get similar. After this I think I will try with an 80A stack to see if I see something similar.

#50 Cadmium

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 19:39

Colin came the closest to red with B-410, out of camera and unprocessed.
I get more of an orange look using B-410.
I have not tried 80A.

I think your link shows the best thing to try, Lee Scuba Blue #729 gel + Schott KG3 stack.
So I will try that when I get some of that.

Edited by Cadmium, 06 March 2019 - 19:40.


#51 David475

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 01:30

You could add the tiffen green 1 to the compatible list, it's like a wratten #11, like the hoya x1, but cheaper and with more sizes available. This comparison of varius green filters here: https://pdfs.semanti...572891f0411.pdf

Edited by David475, 20 August 2019 - 02:05.


#52 Cadmium

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 02:30

The green filters don't work for me, perhaps with the Foveon sensor, don't know. Best filter to use for post processing would be #12 or other longpass yellow/orange range, basically a 'minus blue' filter.

#53 David475

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 22:45

Almost in my samsung, yes, but with adjustments. This is the only way to get red foliage and sky green/blue. If not, the sky is white and the foliage is like orange

Attached Images

  • Attached Image: SAM_4030.JPG
  • Attached Image: SAM_4030-Edit.jpg
  • Attached Image: SAM_4029-Edit.jpg

Edited by David475, 23 August 2019 - 12:09.


#54 OlDoinyo

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 01:10

View PostCadmium, on 20 August 2019 - 02:30, said:

The green filters don't work for me, perhaps with the Foveon sensor, don't know.


Sigma firmware gets seriously weird when fed data outside the normal envelope of expectations. I remember slapping a #12 on an SD14--and it killed the green channel in the resulting image. Go figure.

#55 GaryR

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 20:37

All taken this summer with the Sony a7R/75mm el Nikkor and IR Chrome filter. After CWB on a gray card, I played around with the in-camera color adjustment to reduce the overall reddish cast. Foliage tends to be anywhere from yellow-orange to red, depending on the angle of light. For processing I mainly use Pro Contrast in DxO NIK.

The streetcar shot was taken through UV-blocking car windshield, which resulted in an overall blue image with muted reds. Pro contrast brought it back to life.
Attached Image: _DSC2186.JPG

401 highway travellers
Attached Image: _DSC2193.JPG

Lake Erie beach
Attached Image: _DSC2215.JPG

t-birds at local outdoor car display
Attached Image: _DSC2265.JPG

Sifton bog boardwalk
Attached Image: _DSC2337.JPG

grass in peat soil of bog
Attached Image: _DSC2340.JPG

#56 Cadmium

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 04:43

Thanks Gary.
None of those look red to me, they all look orange.
Looks like a B-410 + KG3 stack to me.
My personal favorite shot is #2. :-)

Edited by Cadmium, 26 August 2019 - 04:58.


#57 dabateman

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 10:31

That red TTC car and red traffic light look red to me. That tree in the background looks slightly orange all in your first shot. Reminds me of my Lee 183 with GRB3 filter. The Suba would definitely be more red.
Thank you for the update.

#58 GaryR

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 13:10

Thanks Steve! Orange foliage is the main feature of this filter, but I like it as a creative tool.

David, The TTC car is indeed red. Unlike Aerochrome processing, or my Sigma foveon quasi-aerochrome images, cars and painted objects remain the same with IR Chrome filter.

#59 Cadmium

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 21:14

David, do you mean that all of the cars are the same color as shot in visual?

#60 Cadmium

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 21:20

Here is a B410 + KG3 shot.
Although there is not a lot of cars and other-than-foliage items in this shot, the house and small truck, and shed, etc. all remain fairly the same colors as they would look in a visual shot.

Attached Image: B410_KG_3mm_1280.jpg