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Kolarivision IR Chrome 'Aerochrome' filter

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#21 Andy Perrin

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 15:29

I have no complaints about my Tiffen #12 on the Sony cameras (NEX-7 and A7S). I do not mind processing images, and my MATLAB scripts do 90% of the work anyhow. I have to say, I've never seen what the big deal is about the original Aerochrome film in the first place, and I just adjust my images to give colors that looks pleasing to me, not especially trying to achieve fidelity to the original Aerochrome(s). I do think that skies ought to be blue and red objects should look yellow, with red foliage, but beyond that I don't agonize over it.

Edited by Andy Perrin, 11 February 2019 - 15:31.


#22 Andy Broomé

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 21:54

Given the wide variety of RGB channel responses between different sensors, I'm doubtful that KV can claim the "Aerochrome look" without some post-processing, no matter how minor that PP might be.

It could be useful for IR video work, to reduce the amount of processing (channel swapping) required to get blue skies again, but I still think there's a lot of hype to this particular filter.

I'll probably buy one when I send my A7 in for conversion near the end of spring (and if/when they offer the fllter in 52mm size) but I'm not rushing to order one right now.

#23 Cadmium

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 00:55

View PostUlfW, on 11 February 2019 - 15:19, said:

Look at the fifth comparison pair between Aerochrome and IRchrome at https://kolarivision...dak-aerochrome/
The flowers in the foreground are yellow in the first Aerochrome/EIR version and red in the IRchrome version.
It is not true to Aerochrome/EIR.

Yes, I saw that, and also those things on the building columns in the distance.
So not a true Aerochrome/EIR transposition.
Which Don Pilou admits.
Still, I have always really liked how visual red changes to yellow with Aerochrome/EIR, really ads pizzazz to the mix for me.
I don't know how you could transpose visual red to yellow with a filter.
I absolutely love the Aerochrome/EIR look.

#24 JMC

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 14:12

View Postdabateman, on 11 February 2019 - 13:50, said:

Jonathan,
Do you still have the Sd14? What Cadmium and I were discussing was that these green filters (x1 type) on a Sigma cameras will give the E6 like experience if using 4100k as set WB.
My guess for the subject is an 80 series filter. I have an 80A, but not a b or c.
In my tests with a plastic FLD filter, it turns all green foliage into white and all other colors stay about normal on my full spectrum Em1. Skin tones were slightly shifted, though.
Hi David, Dug out the SD14, and got a shot in the garden. Used a Hoya X1 green filter and set the WB to fluorescent which according to the manual is about 4100k. This was straight from the camera;
Attached Image: SDIM0129 resized.jpg

This was then with Auto Colour applied in Photoshop;
Attached Image: SDIM0129 resized auto colour.jpg

Finally, with a the Magenta hue shifted slightly towards to red in Photoshop;
Attached Image: SDIM0129 resized auto colour magenta more red.jpg

Not got nice blue skies to include in the image at the moment. As my teacher would say "D-, more work needed".

Edited by JMC, 12 February 2019 - 14:13.


#25 GaryR

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 22:33

Hi Jonathan,
I had the same results using an Hoya X1 on my SD15. On the DP1, DP1x and SD15, I had better results with a CWB capture on gray, with no external filter.

Sigma SD15, CWB capture on gray (in daylight), internal dust protector removed, no filter
Attached Image: _SDI4644.jpg

#26 Cadmium

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 01:35

Nice! I guess the yellows there are transposed visual reds?

#27 GaryR

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 04:24

Thanks Cadium! Yes, reds shift to yellow. The Nash Metropolitan (upper right of the green Viper), was red.

#28 dabateman

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 17:37

Gary,
What lens are you using for that image? I am wondering if the different IR transmissions have an effect. I will try this if I get sun tomorrow. I have the 17-70mm, 70-300mm and 50mm macro. The 50mm macro is more broad spectrum and looked quite blown on a first attempt with my Russian green filter. But did look similar to Jonathan's image, just the red channel may have been clipped.

I also found my first full spectrum camera, the Canon S5 and will see what an 80A looks like. The Uv transmission is just to 380nm, on it. An example of why interchangeable len cameras are best for UV work.

#29 GaryR

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 20:22

David,
I used a Sigma 28-80mm f3.5-5.6 macro lens (aka 'garbage lens) on the car display shot. All my other car display shots produced similar colors.

I've tried the X1 green on it's own, and stacked with various magenta filters, but have never been happy with the results. The 'no filter'/CWB method is easier and produces far better color on early Sigma models. The problem with recent models, like the sdQ and the SD1 Merrill, is that it's extremely difficult to register a proper CWB capture, with the hot mirror/dust protector removed. A DP1 can successfully capture a CWB on a sidewalk, driveway or just about anything neutral gray surface. I don't currently have any Sigma gear, but any of the original DPx p&s cameras would be my choice for SOOC aerochrome.

While I'm waiting for the Kolarivision IR Chrome filter, I thought I'd try blue 80a filter on my Sony a7R/Nikkor 50mm/f1.8 AI lens. It didn't produce anything worthwhile, so I'll stick with #12 yellow for now.

#30 Cadmium

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:19

Pondering the red... food for thought.
Remember Colin's example of Hoya B-410 was somewhat red, but just a little too orange.
http://www.ultraviol...ndpost__p__8233
My experience with B-410 is even more orange, and I don't know the difference between Colin's shots and mine, the camera for one thing, white balance?
No matter how I white balance B-410 I can't seem to get it as red as Colin.
BG3 and BG25 both produce yellow foliage, and Colin has examples in the same topic for BG3 and BG25.
BG3, BG25, and B-410 all have quite similar profiles, except B-410 is more shifted to the right.
I have B-410, both 2mm and 3mm, and I can't remember the difference, but nothing thinner.
Also, if you stack BG3 with BG38 you will get red foliage, but not as bright and strong as wanted for Aerochrome/EIR.
So, just pondering here... this sort of stuff always keeps me thinking.
Wondering if there are any filters that are shifted even more to the right than B-410 is? I mean if BG3 is yellow, and B-410 is orange, then what would be red?
Any ideas?

Edited by Cadmium, 15 February 2019 - 04:21.


#31 Cadmium

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:49

OK, have to go get Indian food... later...
Attached Image: B410_1mm_2mm_3mm_BG3_2mm_BG25_2mm.jpg

#32 UlfW

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:25

The common aspect with these filters is that they reject the red band and have reasonable pass of NIR.
I think a part of the effect we get is the NIR portion where the Bayer matrix have a different response for the different channels (700nm - 800nm).

I saw the same rejection of red and pass of NIR in the cheap green filter I found. http://www.ultraviol...dpost__p__17010
Ulf Wilhelmson
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#33 Cadmium

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 06:04

That was why I made the B-410 3mm thick, because I thought it might block the red more, which it does, but I don't remember it looking any redder, I can't find the tests for that either.
Personally, the orange look just doesn't agree with me too much.

Edited by Cadmium, 15 February 2019 - 06:04.


#34 Cadmium

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 01:28

At least one of their photos looks like Hoya B-410 to me. Their outdoor shot makes the filter look more cyan, but the indoor shot looks exactly like B-410.
So much for my guessing... I am hoping that Jonathan will show up at the party with his spectrometer. :)

You compare:


Posted Image

Attached Image: B410_1_900.jpg

#35 JMC

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 16:44

View PostCadmium, on 16 February 2019 - 01:28, said:

At least one of their photos looks like Hoya B-410 to me. Their outdoor shot makes the filter look more cyan, but the indoor shot looks exactly like B-410.
So much for my guessing... I am hoping that Jonathan will show up at the party with his spectrometer. :)

Steve, more than happy to test one, if someone wants to send me one ;)

#36 Cadmium

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 06:02

I think I will wait and see how this works for other people first.

#37 yann_p

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 14:40

Hello everyone. I'm the one behind the conception of the IRChrome filter. Feel free to ask me all the questions you have, I'll gladly answer all of them (with keeping in mind that I'd be limited by some confidentiality agreement with Kolari on technical details).
This filter IS NOT Aerochrome but it is a filter that is today the closest emulation possible without any post-production to be involed. You can download RAW files from Kolari's website. B410's color look similar but when shooting with B410 you have pink/light red foliage, not deep red.

#38 OlDoinyo

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:56

Looking at the curves of the filter, my guess is that these images taken with the filter are of the type IGB-->RGB (substituting the infrared signal for red.) That will indeed get you red foliage, without any channel rearrangement. Whether to call it an emulation of anything is of course a matter of opinion, but there is definite artistic potential.

#39 UlfW

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 09:36

When playing with this type of Aerochrome like image methods a slightly more complicated alternative is running the PS-action named Tiffen 12
It is created by the Flickr member H.H.1978 and can be found here:
https://www.dropbox....N%2012.atn?dl=0
I found the link here:
https://www.flickr.c...045395608/page3
The original link H.H.1978 originally used on previous page is dead now.

The Tiffen 12 action method is rather simple, but not as simple as the IR Chrome process.

For the Tiffen 12 action, (I do):
Shoot raw with a suitable orange lens-filter, like Tiffen 12, Nikon O56 or B+W 040.
White balance.
Run the action and adjust to taste in the action's controls.

The IR Chrome process, (I guess):
Shoot with a IR Chrome lens-filter.
White balance.
Adjust contrast etc. if needed to taste.

Depending on your skill and experience with real EIR-film looks the adjustments will make the result more or less close to the real thing.
One difference is that the action will give correct yellow from red objects just as real EIR-film.
The IR Chrome seam to give most or all other typical EIR-looks with red foliage etc, possibly directly out of the camera, if the camera can handle such strong balancing.

Edited by UlfW, 27 February 2019 - 09:38.

Ulf Wilhelmson
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#40 Adrian

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 12:14

I downloaded this action but can't get it to work (on a Mac). Has anyone else tried it?
Thanks
Adrian Davies
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