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Kolarivision IR Chrome 'Aerochrome' filter

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#1 GaryR

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 16:30

Kolarivision has released a filter, that produces "in-camera" Aerochrome false-color reds, without the need for channel mixer swaps or post processing. There's no technical data, other than it being a blue/cyan filter. I've been told that a CWB capture on a grey card is all that's needed on any full spectrum converted camera. I have one on pre-order, but looks like it may be a while before they start shipping.
https://kolarivision...dak-aerochrome/

#2 nfoto

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 17:31

It's unfortunate they targeted EIR (E6 process)which has truly garish colour rendition, instead of the older IE (E4 process), which has much more subtle and beautiful colours.

#3 GaryR

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 20:33

The comparison shots are indeed garish, but I do like some of the authors work at the bottom the page. That said, the yellows seem a bit weak, and skin tones don't quite match Aerochrome colors, but will be interesting to compare with my current Aerochrome processing.

#4 nfoto

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 21:16

I did shoot quite a lot of these films in days long gone, and cursed the E6 EIR every time. Its reds looked were they spray-painted over the frame. After a while I had run out of every available roll of IE, my labs didn't want to process it, and then I switched to digital anyway so lost interest in the film per se.

The digital version on the Kolari site does lack brilliance and snap in the sky areas. Thus the problem goes deeper than just the oversaturated reds.

#5 dabateman

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:21

I saw this as well. I was more interested in the color of the filter. It looks almost like an 80A blue.

#6 Cadmium

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:48

For me, the real test is if such a filter (or process) transposes visual red to yellow, if so then I am sold, without that then it is not true to Aerochrome/EIR.
The filter looks cyan/blue in the pics.

I have tried some green filters that I have seem some people use for Aerochrome/EIR on here, but I didn't have any luck with those at all.

Interesting read, but pertaining to Foveon sensor.
https://www.google.c...549942846364927

#7 dabateman

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:55

@Birna,
Do you have any images to share frome E4? I just searched and didn't find a comparison. I did find this write up about the E6 and using a grern filter rather than a yellow looks possibly like what you were describing.
https://www.lomograp...odak-aerochrome

@Cadmium,
Interesting, I have read that paper before but not clearly. Looks like a Hoya X1 filter and WB setting of 4100k on a SD1 may provide reference E6 Aerochrome.
Previously, I missed the part about using color correction filters to get the same image with all the other X1 variants. However, some Sigma cameras will have different colors, so still may be hit or miss.
Sigma is still selling the Sd1, maybe time for you to get one as they are cheap, around $900 now. This mainly due to killing off the SA mount and going full L-mount in the future.

Edited by dabateman, 11 February 2019 - 04:19.


#8 Adrian

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:10

I contacted Kolari Vision to see if they could let me have a transmission curve for this filter for a new book I am writing. Their reply: "We do not have a public transmission curve available. This is a multi bandpass filter and uses both visible and infrared bands to blend different wavelengths to create this effect"

​Th article about the filter mentioned a piece of software: IRG Image transform software. Does anyone know anything about this for swapping channels in IR?
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#9 JMC

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:31

View PostAdrian, on 11 February 2019 - 09:10, said:

I contacted Kolari Vision to see if they could let me have a transmission curve for this filter for a new book I am writing. Their reply: "We do not have a public transmission curve available. This is a multi bandpass filter and uses both visible and infrared bands to blend different wavelengths to create this effect"

​Th article about the filter mentioned a piece of software: IRG Image transform software. Does anyone know anything about this for swapping channels in IR?
Adrian
Adrian, if you think about getting one, I'd be happy to generate a curve for you.

#10 Adrian

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:38

Thank you! I will keep you informed!
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#11 Cadmium

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:10

View PostAdrian, on 11 February 2019 - 09:10, said:

I contacted Kolari Vision to see if they could let me have a transmission curve for this filter for a new book I am writing. Their reply: "We do not have a public transmission curve available. This is a multi bandpass filter and uses both visible and infrared bands to blend different wavelengths to create this effect"

​Th article about the filter mentioned a piece of software: IRG Image transform software. Does anyone know anything about this for swapping channels in IR?
Adrian

Adrian, you can find it here:
https://www.flickr.c...45395608/page2/

Also, "multi bandpass" can mean the same as dualband, like many filters that have two transmissions ranges, such as all U glass, many 'bandpass' filters (BG3, BG25, B-410...), Etc....
Or, it could be some glued combination of dual band and other limiting filter...
However, I would guess it is more of a color correction type filter of some type and strength, which in some cases have more than one band, one of which is unused in visual range photography.

Keep in mind that the MaxMax XDP filter was called a "Dual Profile" filter by MaxMax, and it was quite mysterious at the time, but it is Schott UG1 glass.
I can't even find it listed on their page now, perhaps they changed the name, but hard to find things on their page, needs to be redone.

Edited by Cadmium, 11 February 2019 - 10:18.


#12 Cadmium

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:22

View PostJMC, on 11 February 2019 - 09:31, said:

Adrian, if you think about getting one, I'd be happy to generate a curve for you.

Jonathan, You defeat the whole thrill of being mysterious! ;-)

#13 JMC

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:30

View PostCadmium, on 11 February 2019 - 10:22, said:

Jonathan, You defeat the whole thrill of being mysterious! ;-)
That's me Steve, Mr party pooper.....

#14 DonPilou

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:41

Hi there,

I was wondering how much time it would take before someone open a post about this filter. Being a friend of Yann Philippe, I have follown the creation of his filter from draft to commercial solution. What I can say now is that this filter is not just a cyan filter, it was fully crafted by Kolari using the experimental curves of Yann. As we are talking about an innovating product, it seems logical that Kolari does not want to communicate about its spectrum.

About the aerochrome effect, we cannot talk about a rigorous simulation, as it will require digital channel swap to obtain the light repartition of the film. The main effect is to obtain red foliage and dark blue sky, with far more tone preservation than with a simple cyan filter, and straight out of the camera.

For the large part of photographers, aerochorme effect is mainly visible trough red foliage, an I am not sure a lot of them are sensible to transmission curves and spectrograms. So, indeed, the aerochrome title is a bit surestimated, but in a commercial point of view it is acceptable, regarding the target of this filter.

#15 dabateman

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:49

Jonathan,
Let me know if my guess is correct. When my camera comes back from a fix, I will test that out to see what it looks like as I do have one.

#16 JMC

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:51

Personally, I'd quite like one of those new filters, and if it wasn't for UK customs screwing me over on imports, I'd happily buy one. I'll be interested to see what people think of them when they get them.

David, as an aside, I have an X1 filter. I just tried it on my EOS 5DSR multispectral, and it wasn't great. I got some red on some foliage, but strangely the grass was still green. Also the sky was only very, very slightly blue.

Edited by JMC, 12 February 2019 - 14:09.


#17 dabateman

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 13:50

Jonathan,
Do you still have the Sd14? What Cadmium and I were discussing was that these green filters (x1 type) on a Sigma cameras will give the E6 like experience if using 4100k as set WB.
My guess for the subject is an 80 series filter. I have an 80A, but not a b or c.
In my tests with a plastic FLD filter, it turns all green foliage into white and all other colors stay about normal on my full spectrum Em1. Skin tones were slightly shifted, though.

#18 JMC

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 14:17

View Postdabateman, on 11 February 2019 - 13:50, said:

Jonathan,
Do you still have the Sd14? What Cadmium and I were discussing was that these green filters (x1 type) on a Sigma cameras will give the E6 like experience if using 4100k as set WB.
My guess for the subject is an 80 series filter. I have an 80A, but not a b or c.
In my tests with a plastic FLD filter, it turns all green foliage into white and all other colors stay about normal on my full spectrum Em1. Skin tones were slightly shifted, though.

I still have somewhere David. I shall try and dig it out and give it a go.

#19 UlfW

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 15:19

View PostCadmium, on 11 February 2019 - 03:48, said:

For me, the real test is if such a filter (or process) transposes visual red to yellow, if so then I am sold, without that then it is not true to Aerochrome/EIR.

Look at the fifth comparison pair between Aerochrome and IRchrome at https://kolarivision...dak-aerochrome/
The flowers in the foreground are yellow in the first Aerochrome/EIR version and red in the IRchrome version.
It is not true to Aerochrome/EIR.

Edited by UlfW, 11 February 2019 - 15:21.

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#20 GaryR

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 15:22

I've experimented with aerochrome re-creations for the last 7 years, using a variety of filters and processing techniques. I started with the standard red/blue channel mixer swap and Ben Lincoln's "The Mirror Surface Breaks" software, before switching to the Sigma foveon digitals. The best SOOC aerochrome-like colors I ever had from any digital, were from a FS-converted DP1 and DP1x. The colors were amazing SOOC, albeit at 4.7MP. Every other Sigma that I've owned, (including the sd Quattro), has never come close to the original "DP1" aerochrome colors. I briefly tried the X1 green filter on a SD15, with mixed results. The sd Quattro rendered all foliage and trees in one shade of red, and not particularly pleasing. Since I've switched back to a Bayer-sensor a7R, I like the results that I'm getting with a #12 yellow filter processed with Nick Spiker's aerochrome.exe color profile. Personally, I'm looking forward to the IR Chrome filter, to see how it compares. Video should also be interesting using this filter.