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UltravioletPhotography

Building new UV setup; request for comments


Andy Perrin

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I'm starting from scratch and building a new setup around a Sony NEX-7 body, and I wanted to solicit comments on my choice of lens. In particular, does this Novoflex 35mm look all right (no glaring deficiencies) and is it really the same Novoflex 35mm described in the UV Sticky?

 

And is this the proper adapter for the EXACTA to E-mount? I have seen some comments made about some adapters being better than others but don't know what to look for.

 

Thanks all.

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Yes, that is a Novoflex Noflexar as is listed in the Stickies.

 

I'm not sure, but one of the lens photos showed either scratches or reflections on the rear element. I hope it is reflections, but you might want to contact the seller and verify that there are no scratches on the rear lens element (or on the front element). And make sure the seller says there is no fungus in the lens. I don't see that mentioned.

 

The key requirement in an adaptor is for there to be no warping so that it fits snugly against or into the camera mount and does not leak any light. Nor do you want an adapter which fits too tightly because that could damage the camera mount when fitting/unfitting the adapter. The adapter must also be of the correct length to support the lens flange focal distance. After that, just look for any features you might like to have.

 

I think you would recognize immediately if an Ebay adapter did not fit properly and needed to be returned to the seller.

 

Novoflex (also) makes some very nice, very expensive adapters, as one example of an adapter brand. Then there are medium priced adapters such as those made by Fotodiox, which I think are quite nice. And finally you can buy the least expensive adapters from Ebay sellers.

 

The more expensive adapters sometimes feature electronics and generally speaking are more robust. But that kind of robustness is meant for daily use over the long term. The Noflexar lens you are looking at is not chipped, so there's no need for you to look for any kind of expensive electronic adapter.

 

Most of us have an Ebay adaptor or two (or more !!) and they have worked out just fine. I did have one Ebay adapter which had an incorrect length, and so the FFD was off and the lens could not be focused to infinity.

 

The adapter you linked to is the correct one for an Exakta lens on a Sony NEX-7.

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enricosavazzi
One thing that should be mentioned is that the Novoflex 35 mm became relatively well known a few years ago, at a time when few lenses were known to be suitable for NUV photography. This has resulted in the price of this lens increasing substantially. We now know several other legacy 35 mm lenses approximately as good (or slightly better) than the Novoflex 35 mm for this application. Some of them are still substantially cheaper (as low as 1/10 the price asked for this Novoflex). The UV lens sticky would be a good starting point.
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Also at this point appropriate to point out that most non-specialist UV-capable lenses are quite old and might have seen some use. Thus there can be hidden issues with them and I have had to purchase several copies of some of them to get a sample in good working order. That by the way included the Noflexar, but fortunately for me, I got them well before the asking price surged.

 

However, as long as you venture outside the Noflexar kind, price tends to drop substantially as Enrico correctly point out. As long as the glass appears clean, no harm in buying a less than pristine lens to save some pennies either.

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Thanks (and it might be good to put a note on the Sticky, which is where I found the Noflexar to begin with). I am looking for a macro lens, though, and having trouble finding one on the list.
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You can always get yourself any of the M42-mount lenses listed in the Stickies and mount them on your NEX using M42-NEX adapter with focusing helicoid. That's one of the ways I do it. Besides, Noflexar, with filter mounted in front, will give you limited working distance.
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I've done well with the Noflexar for years, find it useful for macro with its staged extensions. So far my 3 Noflexar purchases have all been good ones. I got a Noflexar which was clean as a whistle, seemed almost new, for around $300 last year. I typically do not buy lens "bargains" which look like beaters so that avoids a lot of problems.

 

Anyway, it is 6 of one and half-dozen of the other on the pros & cons of the Noflexar 35/3.5.

 

There are no dedicated macro UV lenses that I know of with reasonable prices. Does anyone have some suggestions for UV macro?

Do remember that any lens can be put on an extension tube or bellows to shoot closer.

 

 

***

 

I'm not sure what note there might be for me to add to the Lens Sticky?

 

***

 

I note for the record that some weeks it seems like there are really no good M42 35/3.5s on Ebay. Getting harder to find some things.

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I note for the record that some weeks it seems like there are really no good M42 35/3.5s on Ebay. Getting harder to find some things.

 

Iggy might have gotten them all already ;)

 

I do have several spare rebranded Kyoei clones in M42 if anyone is looking for one, but until the end of January I will be very busy.

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You could do a lot worse than an EL-Nikkor mounted on a helicoid or bellows. A low profile M42/C-mount adapter is the type I prefer as it does not seem to vignette on my µ4/3 system. The c-mount is also neat place to rear mount a small filter inside the helicoid.

 

Added later: I am not endorsing this eBay seller, merely showing a quick example.

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Iggy seems to be now reselling them with a giant amount of boilerplate on the Ebay add. Geez!!!! That's one way to make the prices rise for all of us.
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How about this configuration? The lens seems to have tested well here.

 

Steinheil Munchen EDIXA-Auto-Cassaron 2.8/50mm 2,8/50mm No.2311839 for M42

 

Fotasy NA42M M42 Lens to Micro M43 Mount Adapter/Macro Focusing Helicoid

 

Andrea, as far as the stickies go, I was under the impression that the Noflexar price jump was a special case, because of people not knowing other lenses worked well too in the early days. But if all the UV-capable macros are pricey then it does seem a bit pointless to add a special note.

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Andy, what subjects are you going to be shooting first?

 

If buildings and landscapes, then look for a 35mm to 50mm focal length. In the 35mm area, look for one of the 35/3.5s in the Sticky. Sometimes you have to be patient and wait for these to appear on Ebay.

 

If macro, then how much macro? Normal close-up or really down into the tiny tiny details?

If close-up/macro, then I think that maybe John's suggestion of an enlarging lens of some type might be useful. A Nikon EL on a helicoid adapter might be just the thing for this kind of macro in UV if you don't want to try that Noflexar.

If you want really really macro, then look for a JML 21mm f/3.5 which is considered quite useful in the UV macro area. It's a little bit of a lens which sees very close.

Link to member Johan's write up of the JML/3.5: http://extreme-macro.co.uk/jml-21mm/

 

Here is a tag search for the website which brings up all posts tagged with "UV Lens". Most of these lenses are already in the Lens Sticky, but you can see more in the posts along with some photo examples.

UV Lens

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A mix of things. I like to go for long walks (~20 miles/30 km typically) and I shoot landscapes and buildings when I'm out walking. Other times I like to shoot flowers or shells and other closeup things. So I have two opposite needs. I will probably end up with more than one lens, but I liked the Noflexar because it looked like it could do both.

 

[Edit, sorry I missed some of those questions, replying on my phone]

For the moment I'm interested in simple close-ups, not the superfine details.

 

I'm also interested in the sort of wide angle pictures that you saw in the thermal photos, so for those I'm thinking Alex's suggestion is good.

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Here is an inexpensive wide: Hanimar 35/3.5 http://www.ebay.com/...6wAAOSw5VFWN1PU

Read more here on member Enrico's website about 35/3.5s: http://www.savazzi.n...phy/35mmuv.html

 

If the price is OK (and the lens rear element is not scratched as I worried about), then why not just go ahead and try the Noflexar? It will shoot both wide and close. The Noflexar will certainly serve to get you started and let you learn. If it turns out you do not like it, then just resell it and try something else.

 

If you do get the Noflexar, then be aware that the BaaderU might vignette on this wide-angle lens. A 52mm filter stack would probably be a better choice.

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Thanks! Yes, I am pretty well decided on the Noflexar. I already emailed about the possible scratches and asked about the fungus, but seller has not gotten back to me yet. Sale only has one more day though. Ebay always makes me anxious.
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Ya know, if that sale falls thru then there will be another one eventually. Don't sweat it. "-)
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Iggy seems to be now reselling them with a giant amount of boilerplate on the Ebay add. Geez!!!! That's one way to make the prices rise for all of us.

 

??? Am I missing something here?

 

All I see currently are two non-art ads for his starter kit and custom lens. Yes the ads are verbose but price wise his lenses are priced 1/3 or less the $$$ of the Novoflex (counting shipping). Iggy also throws in some Vis/IR blocking filters in his starter kit not offered in the Novoflex sale.

 

Of course that's assuming the performance and build quality of the Hedomar and/or his custom lens are acceptable for the lower prices. Still I don't see either of his offerings raising the prices for the rest of us. If anything were he to sell off his collection it would have the effect of lowering prices. That's just simple supply and demand..

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Typically you don't see these older 35/3.5s offered as UV lenses on Ebay. Once that starts happening on Ebay, the prices begin to rise. See Enrico's note above about how the Novoflex prices rose when it became known for UV. Anyway, that's just what happens on Ebay, and I don't like seeing that happen. Because what will the beginners be able to buy? The 35/3.5s we have all enjoyed were going for $15 or $20 only a couple of years ago. Just about two years ago I rounded up some Ebay Kuri clones in the Petri mount to send to Bjørn and they were like $10 or $20 per. Now a Hedomar is going for $99? And a Kuribyashi/Kyoei 35/3.5 is going through the roof? I just saw one today from Japan which is a total rust heap going for $148. The clean ones are now double that. The prices are rising far faster than simple supply and demand would account for because there are dealers who "push" the UV thing beyond a reasonable price for an old lens.

 

UV Photography as practiced professionally (assuming there actually is such a creature as a professional UV photographer) runs to the thousands of dollars. So it was really nice that for awhile ("the early UV days"??) there was a way for people to try it out without having to go over $500. It is rapidly becoming a rich man's hobby. Again, what will the beginners be able to buy?

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what will the beginners be able to buy?

 

There will always be the option for a pinhole "lens". Basically for free.

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Srsly, it's sad that these lenses get pushed beyond reasonable prices.

 

Pinhole is fun. But everytime I make some, I keep looking at them wishing they would sharpen up. :D :rolleyes:

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Typically you don't see these older 35/3.5s offered as UV lenses on Ebay. Once that starts happening on Ebay, the prices begin to rise. See Enrico's note above about how the Novoflex prices rose when it became known for UV. Anyway, that's just what happens on Ebay, and I don't like seeing that happen. Because what will the beginners be able to buy? The 35/3.5s we have all enjoyed were going for $15 or $20 only a couple of years ago. Just about two years ago I rounded up some Ebay Kuri clones in the Petri mount to send to Bjørn and they were like $10 or $20 per. Now a Hedomar is going for $99? And a Kuribyashi/Kyoei 35/3.5 is going through the roof? I just saw one today from Japan which is a total rust heap going for $148. The clean ones are now double that. The prices are rising far faster than simple supply and demand would account for because there are dealers who "push" the UV thing beyond a reasonable price for an old lens.

 

UV Photography as practiced professionally (assuming there actually is such a creature as a professional UV photographer) runs to the thousands of dollars. So it was really nice that for awhile ("the early UV days"??) there was a way for people to try it out without having to go over $500. It is rapidly becoming a rich man's hobby. Again, what will the beginners be able to buy?

 

Well since you asked:

 

200 um pinhole $10 (benchmark for "basically free")

El Nikkor 80/5.6 (x3) $42/ea. Probably could have done better with more patience but these were among my earliest purchases.

El Nikkor 105/5.6 (x2) $40/ea (same as above)

El Nikkor 75/4 (x2) $34/ea

El Nikkor 50/4 (x2) $15/ea

 

Soligor 35/3.5 (x2) $42/ea. (not the best but one of the few listed on the sticky with a T2 mount)

Domoplan 50/2.8 $26 (+ a bonus Carenar 50/2.8 no idea whether its any good in UV but hey, it was 2 for 1)

Steinheil Cassar 50/2.8 (x2) $30/ea (these are rangefinder lenses on Tower 51 cameras - not sure whether they will be usable as separate lenses yet)

Revue 35/3.5 (x2) $36 (enna clones)

 

Bodies:

 

Nikon D40 (x2) $0/ea.

Panasonic G5 $150 (unmodified)

Pentax iST DL $80 (UV compatibility TBD)

(how much were these going for a couple of years ago?)

 

All purchases made within the last 6 months.

 

Mind you these prices include S/H which I find most people tend to overlook in talking about their purchases.

 

Iggy's BIN for the Hedomar is $85 all in, not $99 and it comes with two Vis and IR blocking filters. The $99 is for his custom lens which I personally give him props for at the bare minimum to increase the supply of UV transmissive lenses. I doubt he's making much profit on his efforts there. He also directs his buyers to this website where they can now inform themselves on the performance of the Hedomar to the benchmark Koyei/Kuribayashi lens.

 

For all those concerned, the absolute best way to keep prices down is do exactly what this forum is doing - posting data regarding as much UV compatible kit as you can find, especially regarding the clones of any particular make. As you pointed out earlier Andrea the market for UV compatible lenses isn't exactly large - the greater the overall supply of compatible lenses (and other kit) there is the easier it will be to meet that demand and the less pressure there will be for price hikes. The best way to trigger price hikes is cause a panic among those interested that the supply is drying up and foster a message of "buy now or be priced out forever". Nothing puts dollar signs in the eyes of speculators faster than that!

 

Short version, More options = lower prices.

 

Also remember the economy. We are in boom times. When the next big economic recession hits (2017-2019??) prices on UV photography equipment may yet fall to new record lows*.

 

*The shoeshine boy giving stock advice :rolleyes:

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enricosavazzi

There are no dedicated macro UV lenses that I know of with reasonable prices. Does anyone have some suggestions for UV macro?

Do remember that any lens can be put on an extension tube or bellows to shoot closer.

Perhaps not a "reasonably priced" lens, but a few years ago Klaus suggested to me the Zeiss Luminar 63 mm f/4.5 for use in NUV photomacrography. On a small sensor, it can be used reversed at magnifications lower than 1x, and may perhaps perform acceptably well even at infinity focus on Micro 4/3, if stopped down. This is not a lens to purchase just for experimenting with it in NUV photography, but if you already have one, or if you do photomacrography on a regular basis, then it is one of the 3-4 lens models most often used for this application in this range of focal lengths. All the others have one or more cemented groups and a larger number of elements.

 

Explanation: this lens is designed for photomacrography, so it is optimized for magnifications above 1x. At these magnifications it must not be reversed. But at magnifications on the "other side" of 1x, i.e. in the close-up to portrait range, it performs better reversed. This behavior is just the opposite of a typical lens designed for infinity to close-up focus.

 

The Luminar 63 mm has only 3 elements, none of them cemented, and all relatively thin. Therefore, it is not surprising that it transmits NUV reasonably well. The next Luminar focal length is the 40 mm, which has 4 non-cemented elements and might also work sufficiently well, albeit at even higher magnifications (and with a smaller image circle when reversed). The Luminar 25 mm, on the other hand, has a cemented group of 2 elements (if I remember correctly), and additionally is designed for really high magnification.

 

My write-up on the two Luminar 63 mm models (tested in photomacrography, not in NUV photography):

http://www.savazzi.net/photography/photomacrolenses6.htm

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enricosavazzi

One consideration needs to be done about the macro capabilities of legacy lenses in NUV.

 

Of course, the performance of a 35 mm medium-wideangle lens designed decades ago to sell in the lowest price bracket, used in macrophotography (for which it is not optimized) is going to be poorer than that of a well-designed, dedicated macro lens.

 

However:

 

Spherical aberration is strongly dependent on lens aperture. Stopping down a lens by a couple of stops causes a very large reduction in spherical aberration. Other aberrations are (from a theoretical point of view) not affected by stopping down, but in practice many of these aberrations are also better hidden by the resulting increase in DOF (for example, curvature of field and axial chromatic aberration).

 

And:

 

The shorter wavelengths of NUV radiation, compared to green light where diffraction is usually measured, mean that you can stop down a lens by an additional couple of stops in NUV, compared to the aperture at which diffraction becomes a problem in VIS. In practice, you can stop down to f/32 in NUV, when the narrowest usable aperture is f/16 in VIS. Try it to believe. Of course, you need a stronger UV illumination or a longer exposure time.

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Srsly, it's sad that these lenses get pushed beyond reasonable prices.

 

Pinhole is fun. But everytime I make some, I keep looking at them wishing they would sharpen up. :D :rolleyes:

 

Has anyone tried making a zone plate around here? Might work better for a UVB attempt than a pinhole (lets through more light).

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