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What app do you use for ZZZZ ? (Now showing Summary in Post #1)


Andrea B.

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I have wanted to run this topic for some time now because I think it is quite useful to keep up with the various applications folks are using to convert and finish their UV/IR files.

 

Conversion apps have multiple tools, but one app does not always have everything we need to polish up our final photos. For example, panos or stacked files usually require an app separate from the basic conversion software.

 

I was thinking that your answers could be numbered and ordered as I have below. Then I can perhaps collate the responses and provide a summary. After you list your apps, then any comments you have about them can follow the list.

 

Multiple answers are of course acceptable. But many of us have lots of conversion apps, so I'm thinking it is not necessary to list every one of them. Provide your 1-4 most often used conversion apps.

 

What app do you use for:

 

1. Conversion Primary (list your most-used primary converter/s)

2. Conversion Secondary (list your often-used secondary converter/s)

3. Raw File Analysis

4. Sharpening

5. Noise Removal

6. Stacking (for depth of field)

7. Panoramas

8. Black & White/Monochrome

9. Ingest/Sort/Name

10. Viewer

11. Other Specialized Tasks

 

 


 

 

As new responses arrive I will update this Summary.

 

SUMMARY

Later I will convert the tick count to numbers.

Count complete thru Post #15.

 

1. Primary Converter

ACR 1

Capture NX2 11

Dark Table 1

Dcraw 1

Iridient Developer 1

Lightroom 11

Photo Ninja 1111

Raw Therapee 1

Sony Image Data Converter 1

Sony Imaging Edge Suite 1

UFraw 1

 

2. Secondary Converter

ACR 1

Affinity 1

Aftershot/Bibble 1

Dark Table 11

Iridient Developer 1

Nikon Capture NX-D 11

Photoscape X 1

Photoshop CS6 11

Raw Therapee 11

Silkypix 1

Unnamed linear ARW converter 1

 

3. Raw File Analysis

Raw Digger 11

Dcraw 1

Exiftool 11111

ImageJ 11

 

4. Sharpening

Capture NX2 1

Capture NX-D 1

DxO NIK Sharpener Pro3 111

Focus Magic 1

Iridient Developer 1

Lightroom 1

Perfect Resize 1

Photoshop CS5 11

Photoshop CS6 11

Raw Therapee 1

Smart Deblue 2.3 1

Topaz InFocus 1

Topaz 11

Topaz Details 1

Topaz Clarity 1

 

5. Noise Removal

ACR/LR 1

Capture NX2 1

Capture NX-D 1

DxO NIK Define2 11

Lightroom 1

Neat Image 11

Noise Ninja 1

Topaz DeNoise 111

 

6. Stacking

DeepSkyStacker (astro/time) 1

Olympus E-M1 In-camera 1

Photoacute 1

Photoshop CS5 1

Tawbaware Stacker (time stacks) 1

Zerene Stacker 11

 

7. Panoramas

Hugin 1

Lightroom 1

Microsoft Image Composite Editor 11

Photoshop CS5 1

Photoshop CS6 1

PTGui 111

 

8. Black & White/Monochrome

Capture NX2 1

Capture NX-D 1

DxO NIK Silver Efex Pro2 111

In-camera 1

Photo Ninja 11

Photoshop CS5 11

Photoshop CS6 1

 

9. Ingest/Sort/Name

BreezeBrowser Pro 1

Bulk Rename Utility 1

Lightroom 11

Photo Mechanic 1

Photoshop CS5 1

View NX2 1

Windows File Explorer 111

 

10. Viewer

Bridge 1

Custom viewer written by user 1

Fast Picture Viewer 11

Irfan Viewer 11

Lightroom 1

Mac Preview 1

Photo Mechanic 1

View NX2 1

Windows Photo Viewer 11

 

11. Other Specialized Tasks

See posts for more info about what tasks are performed.

Not counting here, just listing.

Cornerfix

Custom software written by user

DxO NIK Color Efex Pro4

Hamrick Vue Scan

HDR EfexPro

HoudahGeo

MATLAB

Photoshop

Photoshop CS5

Photoshop CS6

Photoshop Elements

Pixelbender

View NX2

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1. Conversion - Photo Ninja, Capture NX2

2. Conversion - Dark Table, Affinity

3. Raw File Analysis - Raw Digger, Dcraw (command line), Exiftool

4. Sharpening

5. Noise Removal

6. Stacking - Zerene Stacker

7. Panoramas

8. Black & White/Monochrome - Photo Ninja

9. Ingest/Sort/Name - Photo Mechanic

10. Viewer - Photo Mechanic

11. Other Specialized Tasks - Photoshop Elements for labeling and framing, when needed.

 

 

I have not gotten very far in learning Dark Table or Affinity. As usual there hasn't been time to devote to that. But I need a backup app because I don't think I'm going to be able to rely on Capture NX2 for very much longer. Photo Ninja is a very sweet converter, but has only global adjustments.

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eye4invisible

1. Adobe Lightroom

2. Nikon Capture NX-D

3. I don't analyse raw files as such

4. Adobe Lightroom

5. Adobe Lightroom

6. I don't do stacking

7. Microsoft ICE (primary) and Adobe Lightroom (secondary)

8. I don't do B&W very often, if ever. I would probably do it in Adobe Lightroom.

9. Adobe Lightroom

10. Windows Photo Viewer

11. Adobe Photoshop (more advanced HSL tweaking, removal/cloning out of distractions that I couldn't acheive in-camera)

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1 Sony Image Data Converter

2 I don't know the name, but there is a little utility I have played with that does linear ARW conversions.

3 Haven't gotten into this.

4 Unsharp Mask, Photoshop CS5

5 Topaz DeNoise plugin

6 I don't do focus stacking--have used Tawbaware Stacker for time stacking

7 Haven't gotten into this

8 Photoshop CS5

9 BreezeSystems BreezeBrowser Pro (I like this one a lot.)

10 I don't use a separate viewer much

11 Photoshop CS5; Pixelbender (IRG processing;) Hamrick VueScan (running film scanners.)

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1. Conversion Primary - PhotoNinja

2. Conversion Secondary - Photoshop CS6 (when it can set a white balance)

3. Raw File Analysis - exiftool

4. Sharpening - SmartDeblur 2.3, Photoshop CS6

5. Noise Removal - Neat Image PS plugin

6. Stacking (for depth of field) - n/a

7. Panoramas - Hugin, Photoshop CS6

8. Black & White/Monochrome - PhotoNinja

9. Ingest/Sort/Name - PhotoNinja(?) not sure what this one is quite.

10. Viewer - Preview (built in Mac app)

11. Other Specialized Tasks - HoudahGeo for geotagging, MATLAB for complex image processing (PCA, ICA, colorizing, making aerochrome-simulations) and dealing with large batches.

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1. Sony Imaging Edge suite

2. PS CS6

3. Never needed analysis

4. DxO NIK Sharpener Pro 3

5. DxO NIK Define 2

6. in-camera on the Olympus E-M1

7. never do panos (except on iPhone), PTGui would be my choice in Windows.

8. DxO NIK Silver Efex Pro 2

9. Windows File Explorer

10. Fast Picture Viewer

11. DxO NIK Color Efex Pro 4 > Pro Contrast

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1. Conversion from raw to tiff with Photoninja

2. Nil

3. Nil

4. CS5

5. Noise removal Topaz

6. Stacking - almost never CS5

7. Panoramas - almost never CS5

8. CS5

9. CS5

10. Windows photo viewer for jpgs

11. CS5

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What app program do you use for:

 

1. Conversion Primary: Photo Ninja

2. Conversion Secondary:Silkypix, Aftershot, (Bibble rarely)

3. Raw File Analysis: (ExifTool)

4. Sharpening: Nik

5. Noise Removal: Noise Ninja, Nik

6. Stacking (for depth of field): Zerene Stacker

7. Panoramas: PTGui

8. Black & White/Monochrome: Nik

9. Ingest/Sort/Name: Various

10. Viewer: Own software

11. Other Specialized Tasks: Own software, Photoshop

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I understand the idea of the poll. For me, the most import piece of software is the RAW converter, if it doesn’t do a good job then everything else downline is really not important. There are a growing number of RAW converters and it’s hard to keep up with their pros and cons, even more so, their hidden processing.

However, each of us have probably evaluated various RAW processors and settled on one or two based on specific reasons. There are often hidden beneficial, or not so beneficial, features in most RAW converters. Those features become known to experienced users for that specific converter but are not so apparent to someone trying to choose a new RAW converter. In particular, I think the poll could be far more valuable if users indicated what features led them to the choice of their preferred RAW converter or what features turned them away from others. All RAW converter comparisons I have seen are performed by one person and that person cannot be proficient in the use of all of them and therefore most likely unaware of their pitfalls. There is an opportunity here to get a collective input on the advantages and pitfalls of the RAW converters.

 

One of the problems today is that the job of a RAW converter has changed. A RAW converter should be just that, conversion of RAW data to 16 bit linear tiff. Today it is bundled with processing features as well. Granted SOME corrections like WB and additional processing is beneficial while in linear 16 bit, however much of what is offered can be better performed in non-linear format. When evaluating a RAW converter it seems appropriate to evaluate it based on it's conversion from RAW data to linear 16 bit i.e. demosiac and interpolation and associated artifacts. For instance, some RAW converters use intermediate colour space during the conversion which, after round tripping, can clip bright colors in a non-recoverable way, even though RAW data was not clipped. Some perform CA correction on the original RAW R G B data planes prior to demosaic and interpolation (Photo Ninja I think is one of them) which is beneficial. So choice of RAW converter may change depending on image source and image destination e.g. simple RAW conversion using LR/ACR for internet or complex combined multiple methods for critical output.

 

With all these considerations I am leaning more towards using a converter that just converts with minimal behind the scenes adjustments. Then use software that is designed for a specific purpose e.g. capture deconvolution sharpening or noise reduction. I find these dedicated tools are far more flexible and produce better results, than typically the "do all" RAW converters. The trade off is, complexity and learning curve issues.

 

For internet I would typically just use LR/ACR, for more demanding output the methods below.

 

I’m in the process of re-developing some images for more critical output requirements (technique is often image dependent) using the following:

1. RAW conversion to 16 bit linear tiff OUTPUT: Iridient Developer, RawTherapee, Darktable, Dcraw

1. RAW conversion to 16 bit non-linear tiff OUTPUT: LR, ACR

2. “Critical RAW processing” (WB, Exposure, CA correction): ACR, Iridient Developer, RawTherapee or DarkTable

3. RAW File Analysis: Rawdigger, Exiftool, ImageJ (thanks for reminding me)

4.Capture (Deconvolution) Sharpening: Focus Magic, Topaz InFocus, Iridient or Rawtherapee

4. Creative Sharpening: Nik, Topaz, CS6 tools, Topaz Details, Topaz Clarity

4.Output Sharpening (native resolution): CS6, Focus Magic, Topaz tools

4. Output Sharpening (upsizing): Perfect Resize, (checking out QImage and A.I. Gigapixel)

5. Capture Noise Removal: NeatImage, ACR/LR Chroma NR

6. Stacking: Serene Stacker

7. Panoramas: leaning towards PTGui

8. B&W: Silver Efex Pro, or custom CS6 conversion.

9. Ingest/Sort/Name: LR6

10. Viewer: FastRawViewer, LR, Bridge (opening tiffs in ACR)

11. Other Specialized Tools: CS6 Layers, Cornerfix, HDR EfexPro

 

Sorry if this is too much but this is a personal issue I am heavily and currently involved in for the purpose of finding the best process method for specific types of images, landscape, fur and feathers, infrared, B&W, UV, nightscape, fluorescence etc..

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Shane,

Your comments are very valuable. I think the why is much more important than the what.

I am a software junkie. And have tried most but still haven't fully settled on a tight work flow. Thus why I have now about 12 years of digital images I need to correctly sort, edit and finish actually printing. Typically I am lazy and just push out the in camera jpeg with no edits or resized in Infran viewer to post here.

Thus I have put a hold on buying any new software until I finally lock this down. A project for 2019. I have bought lightzone, now free, Affinity photo, lightroom v3, Capture one v6, DXO v8, full Topaz package back in 2011, now out of date, photoacute and HDR software.

 

I will probably shift to using Afinity, Rawtherapee and photoscape X.

But what I currently use is:

 

1. Conversion Primary: UFraw

2. Conversion Secondary: Photoscape X

3. Raw File Analysis: Image j

4. Sharpening: Topaz

5. Noise Removal: Topaz

6. Stacking: photoacute

7. Panoramas: haven't yet

8. Black & White/Monochrome: In camera

9. Ingest/Sort/Name: Windows file browser

10. Viewer: Infran viewer

 

Why these choices are that its fast. The output from UFraw is great for four thirds cameras and a wavelet function can be applied. Photoscape X also has a lot of interesting features and a good printing module.

I hate not having folder access to my files. So not a fan of lightroom or dark table.

 

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I hate not having folder access to my files. So not a fan of lightroom or darktable

 

Not sure what you mean.

I have used LR since LR2 and have full folder access to my files. In addition, my RAW files (along with xmp sidecar files) and folders are distinguished in such a way that if LR vanished from the planet I could still search on files and folders using DOS. Having lived through the days of database transitions, Lotus 123, DBase, Excel, Access, Paradox, etc it's a "survivalist" approach.

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Not sure what you mean.

I have used LR since LR2 and have full folder access to my files. In addition, my RAW files (along with xmp sidecar files) and folders are distinguished in such a way that if LR vanished from the planet I could still search on files and folders using DOS. Having lived through the days of database transitions, Lotus 123, DBase, Excel, Access, Paradox, etc it's a "survivalist" approach.

When you open lightroom or dark table you have to import all the photos you want to work on and are given the catalogue option. I hate this as I sort my photos on my computer in folders with date_camera_event. So in Capture one or Rawtherapee in left panel, I can see everything. This is not how lightroom works.

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I sort my photos on my computer in folders with date_camera_event

Yes I do something similar....of course you have to import them to work on them but you only import the location of your files and folders in LR. I sort and move my files and folders all the time through LR. My "collection" of images is in "my folder system" on an external drive and utilizes "my file naming structure". I used to name files externally in BRU before importing into LR but LR can now name them exactly how I want. I can also see my folder structure in the left hand panel under folders. So I'm still not getting what you mean other than having to import the "location" of the files and folders. I'm using LR6....maybe there is something different in how LR CC functions?

If there is one thing I don't like about LR, with regards to files, is that not all of the LR edits can be written to the xmp sidecar files, so if LR totally bombs along with its backups, then some info is lost, but not RAW edits, keywords, and ratings.

 

Andrea.... didn't mean to sidetrack the poll posting....feel free to move it.

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1. Conversion Primary: CNX2

2. Conversion Secondary: CNX-D, Looking at RawTherapee

3. Raw File Analysis: (ExifTools for metadata)

4. Sharpening: CNX2/CNX-D

5. Noise Removal: CNX2/CNX-D

6. Stacking: DeepSkyStacker for astro photo/time stacks.

7. Panoramas: Microsoft Image Composite Editor

8. Black & White/Monochrome: rarely, CNX2/CNX-D.

9. Ingest/Sort/Name: Ingest: Windows Explorer. Name: Bulk Rename Utility; Sort (and tag): ViewNX2

10. Viewer: Irfanview/ViewNX2

11. Other Specialized Tasks: Adding IPTC info: ViewNX2

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...the poll could be far more valuable if users indicated what features led them to the choice of their preferred RAW converter

or what features turned them away from others...

 

My primary raw converters are Capture NX-2 and Photo Ninja.

Why you ask? :D

 

My converted cameras are usually Nikons, so early on (in 2007) I learned to use Nikon's Capture converters because the NX white balance tool worked well for UV photos at a time when Adobe ACR did not. I came to love the Capture tools - particularly the color control points and the feathered brush - because they were so fast and so accurate and because layers and masks were not needed. What was taking me 30 minutes or so in the Photoshop I was using at that time (don't recall which one) took half the time or less in Capture. Eventually I let Photoshop go completely. But I do have the very much simpler (and "dumber") Photoshop Elements for labeling and framing and other simple graphics tasks not found in the typical raw converter. Another nice thing was that Capture could write directly into a protected area of the raw NEF file so there was no clutter of sidecars to keep track of.

 

Now I'm hanging onto Capture NX2 by a rapidly fraying hair. I have to maintain an old OS on my Macbook to run NX2 and that's becoming untenable. I'm losing support on too many other programs. So it is Time to Move On. :rolleyes: Maybe I'll try the new DxO programs which have incorporated the old NIK color points.

 

On the old Nikongear (from 10 years ago or so) one of the members was a tester for the Bibble foto converter. We heard all these good things about Bibble and started to use it. Bibble had an excellent click-white balance tool and other nice easy processing tools so I used it a lot for UV/IR work (in addition to Capture). Eventually Bibble was sold off and disappeared (apparently) into Aftershot which I didn't like. So in searching around for other interesting converters I found Photo Ninja.

 

What fun I've had with Photo Ninja! I learned that if I'm careful to shoot well while making the photo then I don't really need extensive "processing" at all. A few tweaks of the global sliders in Photo Ninja and you have a very nicely done conversion. Now my processing time is even less than what it was in Capture -- with one exception, sharpening. Photo Ninja's sharpening and details tools can only be applied globally and that's not so great because it tends to sharpen/detail any noise and other areas which are best left soft. But popping the foto into another app for sharpening after its conversion in PN has not been too much of a pain.

 

Best things about Photo Ninja:

  • It is so simple.

  • Easy creation of color profile.

  • The detail slider is a wonder.
    So far I cannot completely recreate the detail slider (an apparent wide radius kind of "sharpening"?) in other apps.

  • The highlight and shadow sliders tie for being wonder #2.
    At least for Nikon cams which have lots of highlight headroom and liftable shadows. No HDR ever needed with a D750/810/850. Just run the file through PN and polish up local details as needed in PS or wherever.

  • The typically unexplored Color Enhancement patches in PN can perform some very interesting tweaks. I should perhaps try to write up some of the trickery I've figured out for those patches.

 

Now that I have written this I see that I have sought Simplicity and Good Click-White Balance in the photo apps which I use. OK, that is good to know.

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Now that I have written this I see that I have sought Simplicity and Good Click-White Balance in the photo apps which I use. OK, that is good to know.

 

This is why I still jump to Ufraw. Now that a new version of dcraw has been released, I emailed the creater. Hopefully an update will incorporate all the new cameras.

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I might add that Photo Ninja has a quite useful batch processing capability that makes running huge amounts of RAW files through to get TIFs for stacking a breeze. It also has a very elementary yet powerful file manager tool that I actually use a lot.
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When I look at available RAW software I separate each program into:

1) RAW Conversion e.g. demosaic and interpolation algorithms, chromatic aberration correction, colour management, numerical data handling, etc

2) RAW Critical Linear Adjustments e.g. WB, exposure adjustment, capture sharpening

3) RAW Processing e.g. Contrast, Saturation, Clarity, Curves, Spot Removal, Alignment etc

4) RAW Utility e.g. batch processing, file management, file browsing, keywording etc

 

1 and 2 are the most important, 4 is valuable, and 3 is really only convenience useful for non critical images. Much of 3 can be better accomplished by Photoshop or other dedicated tools. I haven't really found one RAW program that (to me) is perfect, so often times, it requires combining several different programs for difficult or critical images, or possibly one program for specific types of images.

 

 

What I would find most valuable is information that fills in the blanks for #1 (primarily) and 2, for all the different RAW software available. For example, what demosiac/interpolation algorithms are available, does it implement pre-demosiac chromatic aberration correction, can you customize demosaic/interpolation for monochrome conversion or IR 830nm, does it use intermediate colour space, can it output linear RAW (without intermediate colour space) etc. Tracking down this info for the available programs is often difficult unless you are a dedicated user and have stumbled across it in literature or experience.

 

One very important bit of information often left out is the software version. With Adobe ACR/LR this is critical as different Process Versions exist e.g. PV2003, PV2010 and PV2012. Adjustment sliders labelled the same, often don't perform the same between versions. Also adjustment methods e.g. sharpening may improve with software versions.

 

In addition, a better understanding of what the manufacturer does to the "RAW" data before outputting the RAW file, e.g. Nikon WB pre-conditioning, dark current subtraction etc, and possible ways to circumvent them through hacking e.g. Nikon Hackers Firmware Patch.

 

PS Spellcheck keeps changing demosaic to demoniac, perhaps it is more appropriate.

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Shane, thanks for further detail about raw conversion tasks.

 

There is SO much I do not know about raw conversion. :rolleyes: So I'm thinking that I will try to look first at demosaicing and what "well-known" algorithms are available and what might be the pros/cons of each.

 

 

On a side note: Sometimes as owners/admins of a photo website, we can ask developers questions about conversion software and actually get an answer. Although quite often the answer to questions is "that's proprietary". (As if someone could not eventually figure it out anyway.)

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Update: So I dove in and started with the simple stuff - the nearest neighbor algorithm. Within 15 minutes I was looking for my old copy of Knuth to read up on the post office problem. Whereupon.....I realized that perhaps I was overdoing it just a bit and did not need to recreate the optimization course (now mostly forgotten) which I once took at Bell Labs.

 

Need a slightly higher-level approach to my personal review of demosaicing. :lol: :blink: :blink: :blink:

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Got me thinking about re-visiting Nikon RAW software after abandoning it many years ago.

 

Some hard questions about Capture NX2 and Capture NX-D:

1) do you know if it is possible to output a linear tiff from either of these two programs?

2) does it convert to an intermediate colour space and if so what is it?

3) does the new version of NX-D respect a UniWB setting?

4) does the new version of NX-D respect an image with a linear curve that has been previously uploaded to the camera?

5) can you select an output profile such as ProPhotoRGB with a gamma 1?

6) does it use an internal "camera" profile that is truly neutral?

7) is Chromatic Aberration performed prior to demosaic?

8) any idea what demosaic algorithm it uses?

9) we know Nikon DSLR will perform NR under some circumstances even when turned off, does NX2 and NX-D perform behind the scenes NR and/or Sharpening (non-AA vs AA sensors)?

10) I saw a brief comment on NX-D providing a Diffraction Compensation feature, any comments as to how well it functions?

 

Andrea - what version of NX are you using and on which mac OS, and any issues?

I'm running El Cap 10.11.6 and it looks like it is possible to install NX2 Ver 2.4.6 (up to D800/D800E) and NX-D Ver 1.5 (all models) which also includes U-point technology (again).

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My NX2 version 2.4.7 is running on the old Mountain Lion. No problems with running NX2 on 10.8.5. But obviously I have problems with upgrading other apps and cannot use any apps which were built on newer OS versions. "This cannot go on very much longer", she has said for the last 4 years or so.

 

Let me be sure I understand: A linear TIF has had no gamma applied. That is, gamma = 1.0. Yes?

If so, then NX2 will not output a linear 16-bit TIF, only a "normal" 16-bit TIF.

 

In NX2 you can assign any rgb which is available on your computer to be your working space and also assign it to the output file (NEF or TIF). ProPhotoRGB, for example, is my working space. Had to find it and upload it myself because it was not part of NX2.

 


 

I think I do not understand why you would want to output the linear 16-bit TIF.

Isn't such a file kind of dark, without form and void?

 


 

I have never used NX-D after my first trial of it. It was so terrible and very hiccup-y. Sorry I cannot offer any answers for NX-D.

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A linear TIF has had no gamma applied. That is, gamma = 1.0. Yes?
Yes

 

In NX2 you can assign any rgb which is available on your computer to be your working space and also assign it to the output file (NEF or TIF). ProPhotoRGB, for example, is my working space. Had to find it and upload it myself because it was not part of NX2.

This possibly infers that NX2 CAN output a linear tiff. In photoshop, change the gamma for ProPhotoRGB from 1.8 to 1.0. Then place the ProPhotoRGB gamma 1 working space where NX2 can find it. Select it in NX2 and theoretically it should output the file as a linear tiff. If you try it let me know what you find.

 

Linear tiff can easily be converted to non-linear tiff which is typically, but not always most appropriate. Converting from non-linear back to linear tiff is not without some loss.

Outputting linear tiff from a RAW converter e.g. NX-D (if it was possible) provides a high quality Nikon RAW demosaic (after all, they do not have to reverse engineer their own product like Adobe does) that can then be deconvolution sharpened (always preferable before applying gamma) and passed to another RAW converter e.g. ACR and there, use the benefit of RAW "processes" like chroma NR, Exposure compensation etc.

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I would try, but I do not have Big Photoshop, only Little Photoshop (Elements). Thus cannot change any gammas.
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