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Kolar vision teardown a Z7

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#1 dabateman

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 11:21

Kolari vision just published a teardown of the Nikon Z7.

https://kolarivision.../#comment-25790

I asked if it white balance in multiple spectrums.
This was years ahead of when I expect to see this.

#2 nfoto

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 11:33

A UV or broad-spectrum version of the Z7 would be useful I guess. My own Z camera(s) (ordered Z6 and Z7) are around the next corner so I eagerly await their delivery. Will further familiarise myself with these new cams before I decide which one is to be modified. Or whether I leave the task to one of my high-res DSLRs.
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#3 Andrea B.

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 18:01

My Z7 arrived last week. Haven't had much time to try it out. It is very, very nice though. Great ergonomics with buttons and grips. (The multi-controller is slightly softer than I personally like, but acceptable.) The Z7 has the ususal excellent Nikon menus. My Z7 arrived with the 24-70 zoomer and a F-mount adapter. The style and body weight of the Z7 seem to provide a less front-heavy experience. And the body has stabilization !!!! That could be useful for hand-held UV??

BTW, I love the new XQD cards used by the Z7. They are fast and very sturdy.

There no longer seems to be any of that 'seasickness' effect when looking through the electronic viewfinder. Way to go, Nikon!!! I am eager to hear whether Birna finds this also to be true. Both of us have been bothered in the past by some kind of strange motion effect which we equate to a minor 'seasickness'. Not everyone feels this with an EV, of course!

I have one small observation about the Z7 (and my A7R).
Great ergonomics, however neither the Z7 (or the A7R) is not fast as a DSLR when focusing.
However, that does not particularly matter for UV/IR work. :D

It was so cool of Kolari Vision to show a Z7 teardown. Maybe I'll tackle conversion myself? Haven't tried a conversion for awhile. B)
Andrea G. Blum
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#4 Andy Perrin

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 18:21

Why would the type of camera body matter to focusing speed? Isn’t that up to the lens mostly? Lens autofocus speeds seem to be all over the map.

#5 Andy Broomé

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 20:57

View PostAndrea B., on 09 October 2018 - 18:01, said:

Great ergonomics, however neither the Z7 (or the A7R) is not fast as a DSLR when focusing.
My Sony A7's auto-focus is lightning fast on the 28-70mm, compared to my Nikon D3200's 18-55mm kit lens.

#6 Andrea B.

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 22:47

Why would the type of camera body matter to focusing speed?

Don't know Andy. Seems to have something to do with it.


My Sony A7's auto-focus is lightning fast on the 28-70mm, compared to my Nikon D3200's 18-55mm kit lens.

Yes, I'm sure it is. :lol:
My unmentioned reference was to the current D850/810/750/610/500. And back when I was shooting action stuff a lot, I worked with a D3S and D4S. They were awesomely fast. I still miss them. Kinda big though - I don't miss that.

Now that the Z7 is here I really really need to sell off some cameras! I just got in an old Leica M Monochrom (1st Gen) too. It's very old-fashioned. Should be interesting.
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#7 UlfW

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:08

View PostAndy Perrin, on 09 October 2018 - 18:21, said:

Why would the type of camera body matter to focusing speed? Isn’t that up to the lens mostly? Lens autofocus speeds seem to be all over the map.
The focus-sensor, focus-algorithms and servo-control normally sit in the camera-body.
The lens-motors is a part of the focussing system, but is seldom the limiting factor.
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#8 Andy Perrin

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 06:38

View PostUlfW, on 10 October 2018 - 06:08, said:

The lens-motors is a part of the focussing system, but is seldom the limiting factor.
Admittedly I don't have much experience with different camera bodies (having only used two, both Sony) but I've found a huge range of the lens-motor speed, from really irritatingly slow to very snappy. I kinda wonder about the "seldom" part of that statement. And why would DSLRs be faster than mirrorless? Or am I misreading that implication?

I really wish my A7S had body stabilization, though. That's the one thing I miss about not being able to get the A7S II.

Edited by Andy Perrin, 10 October 2018 - 06:42.


#9 dabateman

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:05

@Andrea,
I look forward to a UV test with the Leica Monochrome. Even if not converted, may still have an interesting response.

I think the slowness in people's minds to mirrorless autofocus, is that previously contrast detect systems were only used. But now a mixture of both on sensor phase detection and contrast AF is used on many cameras. Panasonic still only uses contrast detect AF, but has programmed in every Panasonic lens, this is the DFD, depth from defocus AF.
For Olympus only the Em1 line has both phase and contrast.
Everyone else has the phase contrast mix.
The focus system on my Nikon Df may actually be the fastest I have used. But funny enough I mainly only use manual focus lenses on that camera. But I did get recently a AFd 105mm macro, thanks to the announcement of the Z6/Z7 not being able to AF the AFd lenses. I may have missed the short sell window on the 60mm macro. But hopefully after a year or so they too will plummet again.

#10 UlfW

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 13:42

View PostAndy Perrin, on 10 October 2018 - 06:38, said:

Admittedly I don't have much experience with different camera bodies (having only used two, both Sony) but I've found a huge range of the lens-motor speed, from really irritatingly slow to very snappy. I kinda wonder about the "seldom" part of that statement. And why would DSLRs be faster than mirrorless? Or am I misreading that implication?

I really wish my A7S had body stabilization, though. That's the one thing I miss about not being able to get the A7S II.

What I said was only based on my own experiences and for sure not valid always.

Focussing is done as a servo system and depend on many things.
It will be easier for a camera to focus a fast lens than a slow (aperture-wise).
Different optical focussing methods are more or less quick.

Until a few years ago focusing based on information from the image sensor was quite slow.
Then the camera was just looking for optimal contrast and had to sweep over the focus range to find any contrast at all.

A DSLR normally has a dedicated phase based focus-sensor in the mirror/pentaprism assembly.
That sensor has a much wider distance detection range and can often/always? see if the focus direction is forward or backward.
That makes a more efficient and complete focusing servo system.

Servo systems has to be well tuned for a quick response without overshoot or oscillations. Some lens /camera-combinations might not work optimally together. Then I suspect that the camera firmware takes a slower safe alternative to be able to focus at all.

Maybe Da Bateman said the same thing above, in a better way.
I just read his post when writing this far.

Edited by UlfW, 10 October 2018 - 13:42.

Ulf Wilhelmson
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#11 Andrea B.

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 15:45

I'm kinda feeling bad because I didn't mean to start any kind of mirrorless vs. DSLR "heat" or anything like that!! Please take my remark above about focusing speed as just an initial observation with only that **one** 24-70 lens on my new Z cam. I should have been more careful to set the context.

I don't have any predisposed ideas about mirrorless vs. DSLR. I hope that anyway!

Like everyone else, there are specific things I like/dislike about a particular camera or camera line. I had the very first mirrorless Panasonic G about 2 months after it hit the stores and really enjoyed it -- except for the fact that EV has tended to give me that seasickness/swirly thing. I've been very pleased to see how EV has progressed to its current excellent stage.

It's always about the right tools for the job. For ex, if I want to indulge in action/sports shots or make one of my usually-not-very-successful attempts at photographing birds (why do I keep doing that I wonder!!), then I'm going to use the D500 (or rent a D4S). If I'm shooting UV, I want an excellent sensor with low noise at ISO 400-800, dynamic range and the best Live View. And so on........

*****

If we ever ever get back any sunshine, then I'm out there to try that M Monochrom for UV. It seems like we have had clouds and damp days for about a month now. Very tired of it! But also very thankful not to be in a hurricane's path just now.
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#12 dabateman

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 21:22

@Andrea,
Let us know if your Leica is similar to this one:

http://www.ultraviol...uld-capture-uv/

Since Jonathan has been looking at monochrome, I have been interested. But the Leica is way way out of my price range.
I may get a zwo 1600mm cooled in a year though, if I feel the need. Might be fun. Seem easy to modify as well, just unscrew the top window and add your own fused silica quartz glass. A 30mm diameter one looks to only be $12 on ebay and that may fit the 1600mm from the photos I have seen. I think I will go cooled rather than not, as my Em1 got quite noisey after 2 hours of shots. The zwo 1600mm uses the exact same sensor as the Olympus Em1, just no phase af. Actually no AF at all.

Edited by dabateman, 10 October 2018 - 21:24.


#13 Cadmium

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 04:19

Sunshine?! No sunshine in NM?

#14 JMC

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 07:57

View PostAndrea B., on 10 October 2018 - 15:45, said:

If we ever ever get back any sunshine, then I'm out there to try that M Monochrom for UV. It seems like we have had clouds and damp days for about a month now. Very tired of it! But also very thankful not to be in a hurricane's path just now.

Oooh, a Leica Monochrom. Very nice. In theory this should be excellent for UV - monochrome sensor with microlenses still present (I presume it has microlenses). Some of my recent work on one of my Canon cameras is telling me that the microlenses are still performing their job down in the UV, even at 300nm. Assuming of course they are made of the same, or similar, material then the Leica Monochrom ones will also be performing their job down there. I'm not familiar with the sensors they use, but I'm guessing it has a UV/IR blocker that needs removing before it can be used for UV. It would be very interesting to do a head-to-head with one of the cameras which have been modified for monochrome, to see how the sensitivity compares.

#15 Andrea B.

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 16:10

Sunshine?! No sunshine in NM?

We aren't there yet!




I actually got the M Monochrom to use for B&W work* and don't really have plans to convert it. But I will test it with its existing sensor pack to see if I get anything in UV. We are now getting the backlash from Hurricane Michael so still no sun. Someday perhaps. It's been a really strange summer where I live.

Leica's first digital rangefinder, the M8, had such a weak internal filter that Leica had to issue some hot mirrors for lenses because various subjects showed bad IR contamination. Let's just say that Leica has never been a leader in the sensor pack area. My understanding is that internal filtration was improved iin subsequent iterations of the digital M.

*not "work" really. I don't work in B&W, although I enjoy B&W photography. I just had this Leica lens that I wanted a camera for. (Long dull story.) So I am "experimenting" with the MM really. B)
Andrea G. Blum
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