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UltravioletPhotography

What is this flower please ?


Jim Lloyd

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I was surprised to see this growing in the wild. Was much bigger (flowers around 6 cm across or more) than similar flowers I have seen in the wild. These quick shots on a windy and cloudy day, but may go back to do better ones weather permitting.

 

Using Nikkor EL 80 mm f/5.6 lens (New version) at f/8 iso 3200 or 1600 for UV around 1/2 sec. Nikon d3200 converted UG1 2mm+BG402mm

 

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I have to check the leaf and also check the location, but I think perhaps Doronicum. It seems to be like the D. orientale I photographed in 2009. But back then I sometimes failed to photograph ID characteristics like leaves or stems .

 

Those black stems are way cool, so I'm looking forward to seeing a botanical entry for this !!! My Doronicum are in the backlog of photos which I've never had time to post, so you might be the first if the ID proves correct.

 

I'll get back to you in a mo'. B)

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The Collins yields the species Doronicum pardalianches, Leopard's Bane.

 

Partial description:

Medium patch-forming, hairy perennial. Leaves broad and heart-shaped. Upper leaves unstalked. Woods, shady places.

 

This flower is non-native to Britain.

 

So I think that this is the one to follow up on. :D

 

When referring to flowers which are members of the family Asteraceae the terminology is:

  • ray = a petal. An Asteraceae ray sometimes has reproductive parts near the disc.
  • disc = the center area.
  • floret = a little flower on the disc. Each floret contains reproductive parts.
  • involucre = the sepal cup holding the rays.

My D. orientale also has UV-bright rays and a UV-dark disk.

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Thanks Andrea - how exciting! - looks like it escaped and has found a new home in a forgotten corner of a Northumerland field. Doesn't seem right to pick it, so I will wait for the right conditions and take some proper images and post formally.
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Doronicum is correct. However, the species within this genus are far from easy to identify.

 

I'll check the key in Flora Europaea when I return from my current trip to Spain.

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Thanks, Bjørn !!! That would be most helpful as I have yet to find an online British key.

 

Only these three Doronicum possibilities have been recorded in Northumberland:

  • D. pardalianches, Leopard's Bane or Great Leopard's Bane
    (D. pardalianches, growing wild there since the 1600s, but "non-native". Might as well be!!)

  • D. plantagineum L., Plantain-leaf Leopard's Bane. This is the "narrow leafed" one.

  • D. x excelsum (Brown) Stace, the cross between the two preceding species. Commonly called Harper-Crewe's Leopard's Bane or Willdenow's Leopard's Band. I think that perhaps this one is mostly grown as a cultivar, but of course, many cultivars do escape.

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Was able to get more photos of this today - and then I found a different species (?).

 

So I have a larger one - flowers about 6-8 cm across growing about 70 cm tall and a smaller "version" with flowers around 3-4 cm across 40-50 cm tall. Maybe the same species really ?. The smaller one I photographed in controlled condition indoors, the larger one in-situ outside in gentle breeze.

 

Outside larger plant: Full sun mid morning.

Nikkor EL 80 mm f/5.6 lens (New version) Nikon d3200 converted

UV: at f/8 iso 800 1/2 sec. UG1 2mm+BG40 2mm.

Visible BG40 2mm, iso 100, f/8. 1/00 sec.

 

Growing at border between woodland and farmland.

 

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Indoor / smaller plant : Full sun through glass late afternoon

UV: Nikon d3200 Photax 35mm f/3.5 preset at f/11 UG1 2mm+BG40 2mm asa 200, 6 secs.

Visible: Nikon d3200 Photax 35mm BG40 2mm, iso 100, f/8. 1/00 sec.

 

Growing in shady spot / by side of footpath about 500 m from other plant

 

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For both the whole of the central disc is strongly UV absorbing as are the stems and involucre. The rays are highly UV reflective.

 

Can formalize once I am more sure what this is.

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Just noted a further difference between the two plants above: the smaller one has broader rays with slight notching at the ends. The larger has narrower rays with pointed tips. I think the larger has slight serrations on some of the leaf borders, whereas the smaller one has smoother leaf edges.
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Jim, I'm not sure at all about that 2nd flower. Remember that we need to see at a minimum the leaf, the involucre, and the entire plant as well as just the flower head in order to attempt a remote identification. You can make such shots for ID purposes with your cell phone or a small point-and-shoot.

 

Bjørn Birna should be back from the Spain trip, so let's see what we get there. I'll go ping a reminder.

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According to Flora Europaea, your Doronicum is all D. pardalianches L. A species non-native to the UK and probably introduced as an ornamental plant.

 

There are one or two other options as well, but the close-up of the villose petiole seems decisive in favour of D. pardalianches. This species can grow pretty tall, even up to 1 m, and the heads can be 3-5 cm across.

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Thanks Bjørn

 

Do you think I have two different species here - the larger one initially shown and the smaller one D. pardalianches. In the larger example the flowers are 6-8 cm across

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Thanks Bjørn

 

Something of a minefeild for the beginner - when sometimes subtle differences can indicate another species and at others are part of within species variation. Further complicated when there can be fertile interbreeding as in the bluebell discussion

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The description says the number of flower heads for this species varies from 1 to 8 and with a considerable range of capitulum size as well. Larger heads tend to have more rays than the smaller ones.

 

The diagnostic characters are shape of basal and cauline leaves, whether the latter are amplexicaul or not, hairness of petioles, and a number of technical features only devoted botanists are likely to take an interest in.

 

UK has three Doronicum non-native species plus escaped cultivars/hybrids.

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technical features only devoted botanists are likely to take an interest in.

 

They aren't too hard to learn!

 

For Jim's flowers, I agree that the D. pardalianches ID for the first flower is clear.

 

But the second flower probably needs to be labeled simply Doronicum sp. in Jim's files. That labeling means "it is a Doronicum, but beyond that we cannot go". I have many files labeled only with the genus because the species is too difficult to determine. Sometimes species identification requires knowing the plant's DNA !!!

 

Jim you might want to make contact with a member of a Northumberland botanical society for additional help with IDs.

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