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Hello from Geelong Australia

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#1 Dave Chambers

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:00

Hi everybody just a quick message to say hello and thank you for accepting me into this forum.

I worked in the photographic industry in the 90's however I then did not do anything with photography for a very long time until last year when I started off just photographing friends bands. That has had a great impact on me as I have found my passion for photography once again and wanting to play around therefore I purchased a camera converted for full spectrum. Really been enjoying seeing what I get from the camera so now it is time for me to invest in some filters so looking forward to seeing what I capture that way.

Already been through the forum and found some great information so thank you everybody who contributes to that.

Cheers

Dave

#2 JMC

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:50

Welcome to the forum Dave. We look forward to seeing some of your pictures. I'm not envious at all - after visiting Australia a couple of years ago, myself and my wife fell in love with Tasmania and visit there whenever we can. However 24 hours from the UK makes it a bit of a marathon....

#3 Andrea B.

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 15:26

Hello Dave and welcome to UVP! I would love to see some bands photographed in Infrared. I'm not sure how UV would work for that. But do try it and post us some examples. :D

We are always happy to try to help answer any questions. Our Stickies have lots and lots of info, so do check those out if you have not already.
References, Lists & Stickies
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#4 DaveO

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:43

G'day Dave,

I reckon we are about two hours driving time apart, looking forward to seeing your images.

Cheers,

DaveO

#5 Andrea B.

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 14:24

Hey, you guys can host the First UVP Australian Meet-Up.
Wouldn't that be fun?

We have a nice number of Aus members now.
Andrea G. Blum
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#6 nfoto

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 15:44

Another member "down under" -- we hopefully will see more from that continent in the future. There are other diligent UVP members down there as well so you might be able to form a small aussie group?

Never been to Australia myself, only New Zealand.
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#7 Andy Perrin

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 01:58

Are all UVP members from Australia named Dave?

#8 Dave Chambers

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:10

ROFL @Andy - Yes it is a very popular name as all Dave's are legends.

Thanks for the welcome everybody, I am more than happy to organise a meet up if people are keen.

Full spectrum is really interesting for bands as it gives me I think another 2-3 stops to play with; as expected the IR really shows strong. I am not sure if it is the IR or UV however I get really black pupils and crazy eyes which is great as I mostly photograph grindcore and death metal bands :-) I will post some photos in the appropriate section however I am really looking forward to getting some filters now.

#9 Andy Perrin

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:44

Usually full spectrum is IR and visible since that’s what the illumination usually is, and also what the sensor is most sensitive to. At night things can get a little funky because the lights might have a different mix of wavelengths. I imagine black lights might be used in a band setup, which might make UV a significant part of a full spectrum pic. Hard to know without you doing an explicit experiment.

#10 Dave Chambers

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:46

View PostAndy Perrin, on 14 April 2018 - 03:44, said:

Usually full spectrum is IR and visible since that’s what the illumination usually is, and also what the sensor is most sensitive to. At night things can get a little funky because the lights might have a different mix of wavelengths. I imagine black lights might be used in a band setup, which might make UV a significant part of a full spectrum pic. Hard to know without you doing an explicit experiment.
I will see what happens when I get the filters so at least I know what is what; during some hot summer days I could see some great impact from the UV. The interesting part is in post processing when playing with haze and dehaze and how much impact that has.

I am going to be on a safari in June so am going to use it for that as well - took some images at Werribee zoo the other day and liked what I got from the images. Definitely going have a lot of fun for a long time with this, won't be getting bored any time soon :-)

#11 Andrea B.

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 16:09

Dave, you might also want to read here about white balance in UV/IR photos to see how that might affect your work.

Suggest you make test shots every time for each band's lighting set-up: one each for UV, IR, unfiltered and Visible (with UV/IR blocker). Each time the illumination changes, your photos could vary quite a lot.

For hard/death metal bands I'm thinking that IR will give the weirdest, coolest look. It does nifty things to the way skin and eyes appear. And if you use an IR-pass which also passes a small amount of red or orange (like a 695 or a 665 or even lower) you will get some interesting false colours to play with. I'd like to know if stage lighting outputs a lot of IR? I'm thinking that you might have problems with long exposures in Ultraviolet because there won't be enough of it in stage lighting. But almost all hot lighting gives out some IR doesn't it? For IR you can supplement with your camera flash. But we can't recommend using UV flash because of eye problems.
Andrea G. Blum
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#12 Dave Chambers

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 12:57

View PostAndrea B., on 14 April 2018 - 16:09, said:

Dave, you might also want to read here about white balance in UV/IR photos to see how that might affect your work.

Suggest you make test shots every time for each band's lighting set-up: one each for UV, IR, unfiltered and Visible (with UV/IR blocker). Each time the illumination changes, your photos could vary quite a lot.

For hard/death metal bands I'm thinking that IR will give the weirdest, coolest look. It does nifty things to the way skin and eyes appear. And if you use an IR-pass which also passes a small amount of red or orange (like a 695 or a 665 or even lower) you will get some interesting false colours to play with. I'd like to know if stage lighting outputs a lot of IR? I'm thinking that you might have problems with long exposures in Ultraviolet because there won't be enough of it in stage lighting. But almost all hot lighting gives out some IR doesn't it? For IR you can supplement with your camera flash. But we can't recommend using UV flash because of eye problems.
From what I can tell it throws off a lot of IR otherwise I wouldn't be able to gain 2 stops in exposure, one venue gives me 3-4. I think especially being LED they run really hot in colour temp therefore I believe they run well into IR. I find that LED lights give really crazy eyes with deep black. I am thinking about playing with some black lights on stage and getting people on stage to play around with sunscreen and UV reflective paints. I mostly photograph underground scene so there a re few bands that will be up for it.

I never use camera flash as I like to adapt to environments however something like black lights I am happy to add, don't like the idea of UV flash.

Have to say wish I was able to pay more attention when I studied photography as it would have come in handy now lol - didn't realise that I had ADHD at the time so study was never a good thing for me however it has far more positives. I am going to look at initially an IR pass but visible blocking and UV Pass with IR pass as well. Given most venues have flashing lights and often opposite ends of the colour spectrum there is zero control however I love the contrast along with the contrast that LED gives with its sudden drop off.

As I cash up more I will add more filters and allow different pass through with the IR. I photographed a lot of BW IR in the 90's so have a very strong connection with it however that was all landscape, I just want to push boundaries and do things that nobody has done before. I really want to see what I can do with UV though as I think it will give some crazy effects even by sunscreen on guitar bodies and things like that.

I am really loving reading through this forum as it is giving me some really nice theory. Interesting that you mention white balance as that is the first thing I noticed however I do also notice it with the normal camera and how it affects focus.

#13 Andrea B.

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 19:14

No, you should not use UV flash on people. It is quite dangerous. :excl:


But I'm not even sure black lights are safe if used too long? Depends on their peak wavelength designation I would think. Do learn what that is for any black light you use, OK? If in any doubt, everyone can put on sunglasses or ski goggles. I know a lot of photography is done under black light. I see it all over the web. But I do not know if that blacklight photography was a good idea or not in terms of eye safety. When we are doing our UV-induced fluorescent photography here, we always wear goggles. (I hate 'em but I wear 'em.) B)


I'm thinking it might not be too difficult to search out info about LED stage lighting. Do those LEDs have narrow bandwidths? Do they use a mix of different LEDs in one light? (I mean with different peak wavelengths or different "temperatures".) If you ever find out anything, let us know.


Dave, it is not whether it has been done before, because it has been done before. It is whether it has been done WELL before. So go out and do it well and do it artistically and maybe you'll get where you want to be. ;) (Think along the lines of a future book, perhaps?? A gallery show?? Articles in Rolling Stone perhaps??) Music and band photography has been and will continue to be a very important photographic genre.
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#14 Dave Chambers

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 23:23

View PostAndrea B., on 15 April 2018 - 19:14, said:

No, you should not use UV flash on people. It is quite dangerous. :excl:


But I'm not even sure black lights are safe if used too long? Depends on their peak wavelength designation I would think. Do learn what that is for any black light you use, OK? If in any doubt, everyone can put on sunglasses or ski goggles. I know a lot of photography is done under black light. I see it all over the web. But I do not know if that blacklight photography was a good idea or not in terms of eye safety. When we are doing our UV-induced fluorescent photography here, we always wear goggles. (I hate 'em but I wear 'em.) B)


I'm thinking it might not be too difficult to search out info about LED stage lighting. Do those LEDs have narrow bandwidths? Do they use a mix of different LEDs in one light? (I mean with different peak wavelengths or different "temperatures".) If you ever find out anything, let us know.


Dave, it is not whether it has been done before, because it has been done before. It is whether it has been done WELL before. So go out and do it well and do it artistically and maybe you'll get where you want to be. ;) (Think along the lines of a future book, perhaps?? A gallery show?? Articles in Rolling Stone perhaps??) Music and band photography has been and will continue to be a very important photographic genre.

Agree everything that I have read about UV flash is not good and makes sense really. Anything I have come across black light (with what I would use) is safe however that info is from random sources and there seems to be people on here way more qualified than me so will continue reading the posts :-)

I am going to reach out to a lighting person here and ask him about the UV omitted by stage lighting, I will look at doing a gallery at some point as I like printing onto metal and different substrates however I always put up my photos without watermarks as I agree band photography is very important for society and needs to be captured and seen; the commercial aspect is not one that I am chasing.

#15 Andrea B.

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 19:45

the commercial aspect is not one that I am chasing.

Understood. Take good care of your work anyway!
Name the files properly, back the work up onto external drives and so forth.
So much work like this gets lost. Then someday when it all becomes important
and the historians come knocking on your door...... :lol: :lol: :lol:

For example, the most interesting thing happened just this week in the US. Kendrick Lamar got a Pulitzer Prize! Many are saying that this is a sure sign of the death of rap. But whatever. The point is that art forms of all kinds are eventually something people want to write about, discuss, look into the history of, give prizes to, put into galleries or concert halls and so forth.

*****

I'm sorry I don't have more about the stage black lighting and what precautions are needed, if any. We have looked into UV lamps, UV LEDs and UV flashes and posted safety warnings. Those forms of lighting are, of course, very high output over a very short interval. The usual black lightbulb thingie we had at parties (long loooong ago m'deario) - well, I don't have anything on those. Nor do I have anything on low intensity fluorescents. UV is UV, though. Over time even low intensity UV light can cause cumulative damage if you are repeatedly exposed to it. But one night at a concert? Probably OK??
Andrea G. Blum
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