• Ultraviolet Photography
  •  

HoS or not?

Multispectral
13 replies to this topic

#1 Mark

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 428 posts
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posted 09 May 2017 - 00:46

I thought I had ID'd this correctly as Harbinger of Spring (Erigenia bulbosa) until I looked closer at the leaves; which appear to have a serrated edge I don't see in any of the E. bulbosa images I viewed online. Any guesses anyone? It has a woody stem, found during a walk through the local woods this past weekend here in Massachusetts.

Here's the VIS reference view:
Attached Image: 05-07-2017_19-36-42.jpg

Under UV:
Attached Image: 05-07-2017_19-30-08.jpg

In this UVIVF shot I set WB off the black background. That probably doesn't really make much sense, but it actually worked well and didn't shift the colors much at all. This is very close to what I saw; just a bit more red, if anything - which I find is typical when using a Baader UV/IR cut filter for VIS imaging.
Attached Image: 05-07-2017_19-34-09.jpg

IR:
Attached Image: 05-07-2017_19-40-06.jpg

And, UVIIF (see note below also):
Attached Image: 05-07-2017_19-41-52.jpg

To be sure I wasn't contaminating the UVIIF shot with IR (from the UV LED torches), I took a side set of images for direct comparison. The shot of the left was taken with one MTE-U303 filtered via U340. The shot on the right was taken with the same torch + filter, but with the addition of a BG38 filter as well. It appears to me that other than a slight decrease in overall luminosity, they are essentially equivalent. This tells me that not only is the torch not emitting IR, but also that the image actually is UVIIF.
Attached Image: mteu303vsbg38.jpg

Now if I could just identify this species, then I'll be able to properly renamed the folder I've saved the originals in. Oh, and I can update the title of this post as well :).

Shooting summary:
Camera
- Nikon D750 [broadband] + 50 mm Nikon series E lens + 20 mm extension tube
Lens filters

- VIS & UVIVF: 425 nm longpass + GG435 longpass + Baader UV/IR [stack]
- UV: Asahi ZRR0340
- IR: Hoya R72

Illumination/Irradiation
- VIS: Sigma EF-500 DG Super flash

- UV, UVIVF, & UVIIF: 2 x [MTE-U303 + U340]
- IR: 40 W incandescent bulb, clear glass
Exposures
- ISO320
- f11
- 1/6-15s (as needed)

#2 Andy Perrin

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 1,377 posts
  • Location: United States

Posted 09 May 2017 - 04:23

The UVIIF is quite interesting with those glowing serrated edges.

#3 nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 2,016 posts
  • Location: Sørumsand, Norway

Posted 09 May 2017 - 09:49

Looks more like a species belonging to the Rosales to me. Erigenia is described as a small herb, 5-15 cm tall ?? Your description of a woody stem clashes with that description.

Might be something around Prunus or any of those woody genera.
Bjørn Birna Rørslett, Ph.D.
Just call me Birna

#4 Andrea B.

    Desert Dancer

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 6,287 posts
  • Location: USA

Posted 09 May 2017 - 12:40

https://plants.usda....ile?symbol=ERBU

As per the USDA, Erigenia bulbosa does not grow in Massachusetts.

If not a Prunus (plum, cherry), then the red anthers indicate a possible Pyrus (pear).
Look at Callery Pear or Common Pear. We would need to see more details inside and around the flower to make a definite ID. And also buds scars and bark texture.
Malus (apple) has yellow anthers.

The edges of the leaves are spectacular in the fluorescence fotos. What a nice find!!
Andrea G. Blum
Often found hanging out with flowers & bees.

#5 Mark

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 428 posts
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posted 10 May 2017 - 00:51

I'm not sure why, but for some reason I just need to know what this is! I'll try to find it again in the woods where I was wandering the other day. Hopefully it will still be flowering / recognizable. I'll report back once I get a chance to get out there and take some reference / ID photos. Is there anything in particular I can get a photo of that would be most helpful for identification? (overview/surroundings, bark, soil, underside of leaves maybe, other?)

#6 Andrea B.

    Desert Dancer

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 6,287 posts
  • Location: USA

Posted 10 May 2017 - 12:25

The flower underneath. The flower from the top. The leaf underneath and above and at point of attachment. Leaf or flower stems. Bark, tree shape (if a tree).

How many sepals? How many petals? How many stamens/styles. Are the styles fused at the base? What is the shape of the flower from the side. How are the flowers clustered on the stem? (Umbel, scattered, etc.) Do the flowers have a stem (pedicel)? Does the pedicel have bracts where it joins the larger stem? Are the leaves alternate or opposite? Do the leaves have a stem? Do the leaves clasp the larger stem? Are the leaves hairy or glandular on the top or bottom? Where are the bud scars located on the stem? What is the leaf shape? What are the leaf indentations like - toothed, lobed, etc. Are the major stems ascending or trailing (if not a tree)?

Here is the Rosaceae key from the New England Flora site:
https://gobotany.new.../dkey/rosaceae/
The first answer is 1A because your leaves are serrated (toothed).
That takes you to the following key:
https://gobotany.new...ey/rosaceae/#c2
I'm fairly sure your answer to the preceding key is 2b
because I don't think this is a Rubus (blackberry, raspberry, etc).
That takes you to the next key:
https://gobotany.new...ey/rosaceae/#c4
Now you have to look at the flowers' reproductive parts, figure out what is what and determine whether the carpels are fused at the base or not.

It is possible that they key will not take you all the way home if the plant is not wild. If the plant is an cultivar escape, then you might only get so far before you run out of answers.

You will have to look up a lot of botanical definitions. :lol:
We'll try to help insofar as additional photos show the parts needed for an ID.

Good Luck! :)
Andrea G. Blum
Often found hanging out with flowers & bees.

#7 nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 2,016 posts
  • Location: Sørumsand, Norway

Posted 10 May 2017 - 13:51

Candidate genera probably are those listed below;

Amelanchier
Aronia
Chaenomeles
Cotoneaster
Crataegus
Cydonia
Exochorda
Kerria
Malus
Physocarpus
Prunus
Pyrus
Rhodotypos
Rubus
Sorbus
Spiraea

Of these, the less likely ones are as follows;

Cydonia, Exochorda, Kerria, Physocarpus, Rhodotypus, Rubus, Sorbus, Spiraea.

More data will ease further drilling down into the appropriate categories.
Bjørn Birna Rørslett, Ph.D.
Just call me Birna

#8 nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 2,016 posts
  • Location: Sørumsand, Norway

Posted 10 May 2017 - 15:13

My immediate gut feeling was something akin to Aronia (chokeberry). That impression was mainly based upon the thick leaves which are hairy on the underside and have prominent, rounded teeth. Flowers look pretty similar to what you have posted as well.

Posted Image
Bjørn Birna Rørslett, Ph.D.
Just call me Birna

#9 nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 2,016 posts
  • Location: Sørumsand, Norway

Posted 10 May 2017 - 15:26

The Aronia is easily identified in autumn by its foliage turning into bright reds and the dark blue-black fruits in a corymb. It can spread by suckers so not always tall of stature.

The glands dotted along the midrib is a differential character for Aronia.

Attached Image: black chokeberry early autumn foliage B0610053772.jpg

In my country it is considered invasive and hence black-listed at present. Birds are wild about the fruits and don't mind the extremely tart taste at all. The fruits are rich in anti-oxidants and vitamins. Do not try tasting them unless you have plenty of sweetening added .... or your mouth will be strongly puckered.
Bjørn Birna Rørslett, Ph.D.
Just call me Birna

#10 Andrea B.

    Desert Dancer

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 6,287 posts
  • Location: USA

Posted 10 May 2017 - 20:33

ah, yes, that looks very good as the id.
The Aronia petals have those irregularities along the edges, not a "frill" exactly, not a "ruffle" exactly. But like Mark's flower does have also. And the reddish anthers.

(I'm in transit again - back to the USA - not looking forward to the return to the strange political climate we seem to be in. When Italy is the saner of the two countries, then you know something weird is going on. Anyway I'll catch up to the ID in a couple of days.)
Andrea G. Blum
Often found hanging out with flowers & bees.

#11 Mark

    Member

  • Members(+)
  • 428 posts
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:17

Okay - I found it again, and took some photos with my phone. Hopefully I shot the right parts to enable identifying this. As on overview, it is a bout 1-2 feet tall, woody stem, growing out of a rock crevice near the edge of a cliff in a mixed deciduous/coniferous woods on the north shore of Massachusetts.
Attached Image: overview.jpg
Attached Image: id-2.jpg Attached Image: id-3.jpg

It looks like the flowers grow in bunches of ten or so:
Attached Image: id-6.jpg


Both the flower stems and leaf undersides are 'hairy':
Attached Image: id-4.jpg Attached Image: id-5.jpg


I don't know if I got a shot of any 'bud scars' (just what are those?). Hopefully this is enough to identify it now (I'm betting on nfoto's "Aronia" suggestion).

#12 nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 2,016 posts
  • Location: Sørumsand, Norway

Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:58

OK, this is definitively a member of the Rosaceae. About that there cannot be any doubt.

I looked for the tell-tale glands along the adaxial (upper) side of the midrib and these might be present on the next to last photo of the series, unless this is just a figment of my imagination and a phenomenon akin to the visual appearance of channels on Mars :D

I see nothing not fitting the Aronia identity save for the presence of the glands. Perhaps you can coax out a little more details from your files, and even better, take a new picture? An image showing these characteristic glands along the midrib would nail the species identity. The same would the fruits in autumn, they are very characteristic.

Failing that, we cannot eliminate the possibility of a Prunus, Malus, or Pyrus. Crataegus is less likely and the only regional Sorbus with entire leaves (S. alnifolia) has leaves looking quite dissimilar,

If the hypothesis of Aronia has to be rejected, when no glands along the midrib can be documented, the nearest alternative coming to mind is Prunus spinosa. The plants in my region tend to have narrower leaves, but this is a quite variable species and I have seen photos from the US with similar broad leaves as Mark's plant. Otherwise the habitus and growth conditions are similar to what I encounter over here. It will have very tangy blue fruits like small plums in the autumn so differs from the Aronia.

A final recommendation for anyone working with UV-based photo documentation of botanical specimens is to snap off some plants or twigs and put them into a plant press for later perusal. Photos are OK for identification only as long as they show the traits one needs for a final classification. I do have to remind myself of this myself when I work outside my region, but try to compensate by taking a lot of extra photos of any details.
Bjørn Birna Rørslett, Ph.D.
Just call me Birna

#13 Andrea B.

    Desert Dancer

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 6,287 posts
  • Location: USA

Posted 12 May 2017 - 17:46

Bjørn has it. :D One of the Aronias. Although confirmation of the midrib glands would be nice.

The hairy abaxial leaf surface tells you that this is either Aronia arbutifolia (Red Chokecherry) or A. floribunda (Purple Chokecherry). If the upper side of the leaf is fuzzy or hairy, then Red. If upper is hairless or only a few hairs (like your leaves, yes?), then Purple. The 3rd possibility was A. melanocarpus (Black Chokecherry) which has leaves mostly hairless on both sides (and also glabrous hypanthia, unlike your photos).

(This ID from following preceding key and looking at other characteristics listed in each species write-up.)

[[Noting that Flora of North America recognizes A. floribunda only as a hybrid (called there Aronia x prunifolia) between A. arbutifolia and A. melanocarpus. But Flora Novae Angliae now sees A. floribunda as a separate species.]]

Habitat, while not definitive, does lean towards A. floribunda.
Andrea G. Blum
Often found hanging out with flowers & bees.

#14 nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Owner-Administrator
  • 2,016 posts
  • Location: Sørumsand, Norway

Posted 12 May 2017 - 21:15

I'm only convinced of the tentative Aronia if the presence of the midrib glands can be verified. Otherwise we should look somewhere else.

It is worth keeping in mind that most of these genera are defined by the different fruit characters. Their vegetative state might be much more similar than the fruits.
Bjørn Birna Rørslett, Ph.D.
Just call me Birna